Moderator: Tim White
or_caver wrote:Unfortunatly there are too many people "set" in their ways...too bad other rescue teams/squads couldn't put the safety of their teams in front of their ways which they learned back when they first learned what a carabiner was.
Mudduck wrote:I think everyone doing ropework should be schooled on the structural dynamics of aluminum. Once properly educated on this issue one tends to respect carabiners from a whole new perspective. With the structural failures I tend to see in aircraft , I have learned to have an appreciation for all my equipment. I've seen failures resulting from intergranular corrosion with no external evidence that would have you spit shining anything made of 7075 t6 after every use.
With adequate preparation there is never an excuse for breaking a rule. To me its as simple as that.
NZcaver wrote:Then where did the old cliché "rules are made to be broken" come from? But more to the point, who makes the rules? The people who develop the standards and write the manuals, or the occasional well-intentioned person who goes against the grain by saying carabiners should never be used for litter connections?
NZcaver wrote:My understanding is that corrosion in alloy carabiners occurs on the surface with exposure to air and the elements (exfoliation corrosion), and carabiners simply do not fail from the inside out due to intergranular corrosion without any obvious signs. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. It seems most corrosion issues with alloy carabiners are caused by salt, acids, and contact with dissimilar metals for extended periods of time, and storing them away without being clean and dry. Normal commonsense stuff which should be clearly visible during normal inspection.
NZcaver wrote: ... and contact with dissimilar metals for extended periods of time, and storing them away without being clean and dry...
Mudduck wrote:He who lives till tomorrow makes the rules
I supposed what fuels my fears with this is the way I've seen others treat their vertical gear. I've seen people plenty of times pull it out with 6 months of mud on it which if stress fractures existed would create an environment for mayhem.
Dogma good, dead bad
sherppa wrote:Galvanic corrosion?
NZ wrote:... In fact, all evidence I have heard is to the contrary. My understanding is that corrosion in alloy carabiners occurs on the surface with exposure to air and the elements (exfoliation corrosion), and carabiners simply do not fail from the inside out due to intergranular corrosion without any obvious signs. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. It seems most corrosion issues with alloy carabiners are caused by salt, acids, and contact with dissimilar metals for extended periods of time, and storing them away without being clean and dry.
Scott McCrea wrote:A story about monkeys and how (and why) some vertical 'rules' begin...
After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? Because that’s the way it’s always been around here."
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