Moderator: Moderators
Phil Winkler wrote:Heard this this morning:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129031005
BrianC wrote:"Yeah, well, you know, so, with humans moving pathogens around so."- not exact context, but its all there.
Duh now! He must have read that in some history book. another fine example of journalism from NPR.
FLATOW: There are frogs dying all over the world from a fungal infection. You have bats dying now from fungal infections. Could there be some kind of link between the two?
Dr. FRICK: Well, there's no link between the two fungi, that are the chytrid fungus that's attacking amphibians and this Geomyces destructans that's attacking the bats. But it does, you know, speak to the broader problem of wildlife disease and pathogens creating significant risks to species. And in the case of white-nose, the potential role of humans moving pathogens around.
mae wrote:BrianC wrote:"Yeah, well, you know, so, with humans moving pathogens around so."- not exact context, but its all there.
Duh now! He must have read that in some history book. another fine example of journalism from NPR.
Downvote for being completely out of context, Brian! And Dr. Frick is female and not a journalist!
What it said:FLATOW: There are frogs dying all over the world from a fungal infection. You have bats dying now from fungal infections. Could there be some kind of link between the two?
Dr. FRICK: Well, there's no link between the two fungi, that are the chytrid fungus that's attacking amphibians and this Geomyces destructans that's attacking the bats. But it does, you know, speak to the broader problem of wildlife disease and pathogens creating significant risks to species. And in the case of white-nose, the potential role of humans moving pathogens around.
BrianC wrote:Just read what he, she, whatever, said, Mae, it is all there. I didn't intend for anyone to think the Dr was a journalist.
NZcaver wrote:BrianC wrote:Just read what he, she, whatever, said, Mae, it is all there. I didn't intend for anyone to think the Dr was a journalist.
I read the entire transcript. I fail to understand what you're trying to say by misquoting what was said.
Leitmotiv wrote: Probably not bats, since as far as I know they don't fly across the ocean or stow away on ships and then fly in hundreds of miles to a tourist cave.
John Lovaas wrote:Leitmotiv wrote: Probably not bats, since as far as I know they don't fly across the ocean or stow away on ships and then fly in hundreds of miles to a tourist cave.
Sorry Matt- two wrongs in one sentence don't make a right ;-)
"...since as far as I know they don't fly across the ocean or stow away on ships..."
Bat do stow away on ships- please read:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol9no1/02-0104.htm
"...and then fly in hundreds of miles to a tourist cave..."
A) Distance from Albany's deepwater sea port to the cluster of NY caves where WNS was first noted: 40 miles. Not hundreds.
B) The first photograph of WNS was taken in 2006 in Howe's Cave. WNS was documented in a cluster of 5 caves(including Howe's Cave) in 2006-2007.
Leitmotiv wrote:Yeah BrianC your misquote was entirely and intentionally misleading. You can't quote something if you do it incorrectly. Try better next time.
It merely said "potential", which if we are all honest with ourselves, is neither confirming nor denying our involvement with the disease.
wyandottecaver wrote: To be a vector you have to transport viable spores to a viable habitat where they can then grow and infect a viable host. We have collected spores from cave gear immediately after exiting a cave when the purpose of the trip was to sample for spores upon exit. That doesn't even make us vectors of spores from one site to the next...let alone vectors of GD.
wyandottecaver wrote:wow,
someone reads a few WNS topics and "poof" they are an expert......
1) If GD was in America before 2005-6 it almost certainly would have been noticed. If it originated in America in 2005-6 then it is quite unlikely that a fungus that looked the same and was later DNA tested to be the same would have been documented from Europe back in the 80's through present. Fungal infections of bats identical in appearance to GD were documented in Europe at least as far back as the mid 80's. However, in Europe it has not proven to have the same impact as in America. One current and very plausible theory is that GD has already wiped out susceptible european bats long ago and persisted among a remnant population until being introduced to the US. The fact that GD was not described as a species until recently is because that until it starting killing bats en mass in the US nobody particularly CARED about white fungus on bat noses. So far as everything I've seen, the "spread" of GD in europe is a spread of confirming the identity of a fungus already present.
2) GD has indeed exhibited a typical point source spread pattern. I would argue my examples are in fact quite accurate. If we look at the USFWS and media we see a "WNS spread by humans is probable and in fact quite likely and backed up by internal studies people wont publish" approach. If we look at brian C and those like him we see "WNS cant be spread by people, it is in fact impossible, and so we shouldn't even mention it". I postulated that "WNS human spread is possible, but totally unsupported in the real world, and thus very unlikely" (i.e. $2.00/gal gas).
It certainly isn't any stretch of the imagination to imagine humans as vectors and GD spores being transported by people and other animal vectors. The problem is you MUST use your imagination because there is ZERO data to support the supposition that that actually happens.
The main problem is that people equate transporting spores with being a vector. Wrong. To be a vector you have to transport viable spores to a viable habitat where they can then grow and infect a viable host. We have collected spores from cave gear immediately after exiting a cave when the purpose of the trip was to sample for spores upon exit. That doesn't even make us vectors of spores from one site to the next...let alone vectors of GD.
Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot]