Moderator: Tim White
RescueMan wrote:[
Cheryl Jones wrote:It appears to me that the rope does not run parallel to itself in the knot in this photo, but crosses itself just before emerging as the bite. Can you see it?
I believe the knot is more secure when the lines run parallel throughout the knot, as shown in Rescueman's diagrams. This is especially important when tying the knot using webbing.
NZcaver wrote:Robert's earlier diagram of a figure 8 on-the-bight shows the knot before being dressed. To dress it, you flip the bight around so the knot is nicely rounded and compact rather than flat (that's what I do, anyway). The knot becomes neatly snugged-up, and is more secure.
Cheryl Jones wrote:The knot can (and should) be "dressed" and tightened with the ropes remaining parallel throughout the knot... This method provides maximum friction within the knot -- and friction is an important element in the security of a knot.l
Cheryl Jones wrote:The knot can (and should) be "dressed" and tightened with the ropes remaining parallel throughout the knot. In fact I'd argue that it is more compact this way, for it eliminates the lump where the ropes cross. This method provides maximum friction within the knot -- and friction is an important element in the security of a knot.
NZcaver wrote:Cheryl Jones wrote:The knot can (and should) be "dressed" and tightened with the ropes remaining parallel throughout the knot.
Still, I'm not sure that this results in the same outcome that you described. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe my second and third shots and Robert's red rope shot all show properly dressed figure 8's. (Robert, you disagree?) Robert's earlier tree photo shows a knot that appears to be both incorrectly tied (tail on the wrong side) AND undressed (the last loop before the bight should be flipped over it's neighbor and snugged tight).
NZcaver wrote:I believe my second and third shots and Robert's red rope shot all show properly dressed figure 8's. (Robert, you disagree?) Robert's earlier tree photo shows a knot that appears to be both incorrectly tied (tail on the wrong side) AND undressed (the last loop before the bight should be flipped over it's neighbor and snugged tight).
RescueMan wrote:Cheryl is correct that the red fig-8 loop needs a clockwise half turn of the bight before it emerges to form the eye.
NZcaver wrote:the red rope figure 8 still appears to be correctly tied and dressed to me.
I don't use a backup knot with a figure 8, but I always do with a bowline... the high-strength bowline probably achieves the same result with a more gentle learning curve (two turns form the initial loop instead of one).
In supple rope, I often don't bother to back up a bowline (except in rescue scenarios, or if going through use cycles). Once it's loaded, it becomes a secure knot.
And I'm not a fan of ANY of the "extra strength" versions of the bowline - double bowline, French (or Portuguese) bowline, water bowline (with clove hitch). The plain vanilla bowline is as good a knot as there is, and strength reduction is simply not an issue unless I'm climbing on 8mm rope (which I don't) or towing a truck out of a ditch (which I don't do with my climbing/caving/rescue ropes).
RescueMan wrote:And YOU'RE RIGHT! I was trying to mentally turn the picture of the red fig-8 around in my mind to see the back side when I should have just tied a rope into a knot and checked it out.
knudeNoggin wrote:I'm rather dismayed that the clear image of the red Fig.8 loopknot has taken now several responses to figure out that it is "right", in THIS forum--this knot that is soooo easy to check!
*knudeNoggin*
NZcaver wrote:And P.S. Could someone please tell me what on earth the acronym "YMMV" - Your Mileage May Vary - has to do with knots?
NZcaver wrote:And P.S. Could someone please tell me what on earth the acronym "YMMV" - Your Mileage May Vary - has to do with knots?
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