Moderator: Tim White
Scott McCrea wrote:It is also possible to lessen the threat of SAD by replacing the locking carabiner with something more secure or a screw link.
Scott McCrea wrote:It is also possible to lessen the threat of SAD by replacing the locking carabiner with something more secure or a screw link. However, nothing will lessen importance of always doing the Rappel Test before each descent. Note that SAD is not an equipment problem. It is fully due to operator error.
Please, take the Rappel Test. Everytime.
jharman2 wrote:It is very easy to load a biner across the gate when crossing a rebelay.
ek wrote:EDIT: Clarification: I am not arguing that SAD is less of an issue that Scott is saying it is. It's a huge, major issue, like Scott says, and you avoid it by engaging in proper practices. Rather, in this post I argue that carabiners, used correctly, are safe to use to attach racks. Used correctly.
ek wrote:But I fail to see how loading a locked carabiner along its short axis while rappelling carries a substantial risk of breaking the carabiner
jharman2 wrote:1. The safest way to attach a rack to a D-link is directly. No screw link, no biner. You will never cross load anything and you only have 1 screw gate to tend.
jharman2 wrote:Sure the biner is strong (>7kN) across the gate. However, loaded across the gate is using it outside of its intended purpose. Do you want to cross a rebelay at +160' only to find that your biner is cross loaded? What if you don't catch the blunder and rappel 5 feet only to have the biner orient itself correctly? Your hand gets pinched between the biner and the rack. You were using a micro on fast 9mm and your brake hand lets go of the rope to try to free your stuck control hand. You have a very quick 160' ride and the inside of your cave suit becomes as dirty as the outside.
ek wrote: But I fail to see how loading a locked carabiner along its short axis while rappelling carries a substantial risk of breaking the carabiner.
Bob Thrun wrote:ek wrote: But I fail to see how loading a locked carabiner along its short axis while rappelling carries a substantial risk of breaking the carabiner.
See http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/47/uiaa2.pdf
I had this kind of loading happen to me when I put my weight on a ledge at the start of a rappel. Fortunately I was using a maillon rapide.
ek wrote:What do you folks think?
ek wrote:This is not really short-axis loading, but it is a fatal way to load a carabiner against the gate.
While this typically happens to people using figure 8's, I suppose it would be possible with a rack. Using with a U-rack, like a micro-rack, I think would eliminate this risk.
Scott McCrea wrote:ek wrote:What do you folks think?
KISS
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