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dfcaver wrote:The spread of WNS is eerily similar to the spread of West Nile Virus. Emerging out of NYC, it spread nationwide much faster than WNS. We all know it's main source of spread to be mosquito based. Interestingly enough, West Nile can infect bats, both through a bite or ingestion. The first place the virus was isolated from bats? Albany, NY.
Teresa wrote:I'm personally skeptical that cavers are a major vector, given that caving has been somewhat popular in the Northeast for at least 60 years, WNS is first going critical mass now, people or their gear show no evidence of being personally affected, and most cavers don't touch or physically disturb the bats or the bats' nearby surroundings.
dfcaver wrote:The spread of WNS is eerily similar to the spread of West Nile Virus. Emerging out of NYC, it spread nationwide much faster than WNS. We all know it's main source of spread to be mosquito based. Interestingly enough, West Nile can infect bats, both through a bite or ingestion. The first place the virus was isolated from bats? Albany, NY.
Cheryl Jones wrote:PMI approved decon procedures:
"Cleaning PMI Ropes
Effect of Bleach on Rope
Because PMI ropes are often used in rescue and other situations where equipment may be exposed to bloodborne pathogens or other infectious substances, we are often asked about appropriate methods for cleaning ropes. In some cases a 10% bleach solution is recommended for cleaning of exposed gear.
In response to questions stemming from a recent discussion on the TagNet discussion board, PMI Production Director Chuck Weber has provided the following guidance for customers who are concerned about the effect of bleach on rope fibers, or for those who have concerns about disinfecting their rope:
PMI suggests that a mixture of 1 part household bleach (with active ingredient of Sodium hypochlorite at 5.25% concentration) with 9 parts room temperature tap water and a 10min or less exposure time, immediately followed by a thorough rinse of room temperature water will not cause any appreciable harm to nylon or polyester ropes.
Of course, it should always be remembered that ropes are a critical element of the life safety system, and it can be difficult to make subjective
decisions about the strength of rope without actually testing it to failure. The prudent course of action is to discard any rope about which there is any
doubt."
ek wrote:(1) Wash the rope as ordinarily done (e.g. with a slide-through rope
washer) to remove surface dirt.
(2) Loosely daisy-chain the rope and place it in a large mesh bag.
(3) Place the mesh bag in a large front-loading washing machine, with
a normal amount of standard laundry detergent (not rope soap, as that
would not meet FWS guidelines).
(4) Wash the rope on HOT (with the building's water heater set to
normal, and not elevated, temperature).
(5) Remove the rope from the washer and hang to dry as usual when washing rope.
Jillian Bartlett wrote:Hello, Eliah-
After going over your inquiry with Kim, in Quality Assurance, she provided this information below:
I hope it helps you, but if you need more information- we'll work to get it for you.
[His suggested washing procedure seems mostly acceptable for both nylon and polyester ropes & equipment. However, I would suggest as you say to use a MILD detergent (not standard detergent as he says below) such as Ivory Snow. And yes, a small amount of liquid fabric softener can be safely added to restore lubricity. He is correct in that the rope WILL shrink after washing, especially if using hot water. Something that's likely obvious but should be noted in any case: this procedure will NOT decontaminate equipment properly in the case of something more serious like bloodborne pathogens. I'm not well-versed in the severity of WNS with regard to potential toxins and/or contamination, so I'm honestly not sure if the standard cleaning would be acceptable in this case. I would tend to err on the side of safety and recommend de-contaminating as if it were a bloodborne pathogen type situation. Unfortunately there is simply a lack of comprehensive information on the details of this new and potentially dangerous disease. For that matter, I'm copying the NFPA guidelines for decontamination using bleach. He mentioned using a 10% solution which is NOT recommended!! See below for the safe way to de-con using bleach (also acceptable for polyester):
The NFPA standard for cleaning rescue gear of blood-borne
pathogens calls for a solution of 60 ml of household bleach for
every 4 liters of tap water, or 1/4 cup per gallon. The item is
soaked for 10 minutes and then thoroughly rinsed off. Alcohol
can then be used to speed drying. The rinse would be very
important to be sure the bleach doesn't damage the nylon over
long time contact.
NOTES:
1) The concentration of bleach explained above is 1.5%.
2) NEVER use a higher concentration of bleach than stated
above. Higher bleach concentrations are known to seriously
damage nylon.
3) ALWAYS rinse the rope thoroughly after the 10 minute exposure
to the bleach mixture.
4) After rinsing, allow the rope to dry in a cool dry place, but
not in direct sunlight. The use of a fan to blow air across the
rope can be used to speed the drying process. Do NOT lay the
rope out on asphalt or concrete surfaces to dry.]
Jillian Bartlett
PMI Customer Service
800-282-7673 ext.238
(unrelated postscript truncated)ek wrote:Jillian--
Hi, this is Eliah again. Last week, I was referred to a post on Cavechat (the NSS forum), in which a message indicating that it originated from Loui McCurley at PMI and forwarded several times was reproduced. The original message is about a year old, bearing the date of February 16th, 2008. In the message, McCurley (allegedly) says that PMI approves soaking a rope in 10% bleach solution for 10 minutes, followed by thorough rinsing.
While I myself was not familiar with this, it has apparently been widely circulated and people have been using this procedure on PMI ropes, thinking that you approve it.
So, if what Kim in QA says is correct and this is not a safe procedure, then I figured it would be critical that you know about this. I apologize for my delay in conveying this information to you.
I would request that you let me know, once this situation has been figured out, what the ultimate official word from PMI is on the matter of decontamination with chlorine bleach. Whatever it is, SUOC's institutional setting and potential for mistakes, as well as many people's personal concerns, render the use of bleach a non-option in some situations and I will continue to pursue a non-bleach WNS decontamination procedure consistent with the FWS protocol. The FWS has still not determined whether or not Woolite and Ivory Snow qualify as "conventional detergents," but if and when they give me official information on this I will make sure to let you know.
I asked Ron Miller, who posted the forwarded message to Cavechat, to email me the original message he received. I have forwarded that for you below.
As I believe it is important that you are aware of this bleach situation, I would request that you reply as soon as you get this email, to indicate that you've received it. Email is not 100% reliable.
Thanks,
Eliah Kagan
NSS #57892
Caving Chair, Syracuse University Outing Club
(http://suoc.syr.edu)
degeneracypressure@gmail.com
315-391-9216
Jillian Bartlett wrote:Eliah
I have received your email, below. I forwarded it to Loui McCurley so that she can respond to it properly. You may hear directly from her, or I may email you back, depending on her schedule. Thank you so much for referring to us about this post and I have no doubt that we can confirm the proper procedure and verify the information you need.
Jillian Bartlett
PMI Customer Service
800-282-7673 ext.238
junkman wrote:I see a huge problem with the recommended decon procedures as stated above.
USFWS recommends 7 times more bleach for an "effective decon" then the manufacture (PMI) recommends.
junkman wrote:No disrespect to ek intended.
I'm an engineer and I use as few words as possible to get to the point.
junkman wrote:I see a huge problem with the recommended decon procedures as stated above.
USFWS recommends 7 times more bleach for an "effective decon" then the manufacture (PMI) recommends.
Rope is our life line when we are on it. All vertical cavers have a hard time with the notion that we have to use bleach on our rope.
Now we are asked to use a strength that the manufacture (PMI) says is too strong.
junkman wrote:This is a real issue that needs to be worked out.
I'm all for decon'ing my equipment, but I will not go over what the manufacture says is a safe level of bleach.
We don't need rope failures due to incorrect decon procedures.
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