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Ernie Coffman wrote: Well here's an incentive for the grotto. As a member of the NSS Membership Committee, I'd like to share with you some news that our Chairman Dawn Ryan has been trying to get some incentive to grottos, for getting new cavers to show what grotto they're going to be in; and, this has been quite a chore, believe you me. I won't go into the particulars, but it's a head-shaker!
Teresa wrote:Why is it a headshaker? Not all cavers are in grottos. Some who are in multiple grottos prefer not to alienate one or the other. What is a headshaker is, Ernie, what difference does an 'official' grotto affiliation make? None at all to the caver. Cavers are strange alien creatures, often not very socially adept at all. You don't have to be officially affiliated with a grotto (only an NSS member) to be an officer.
Maybe if you all made a good case for why this is important...other than just book incentives, since I know many grottos without libraries, and many cavers hostile to reading...people might be more inclined to show this. The only thing I've ever seen grotto members used for is COG votes-- and that's rather a joke, anyway.
It's funny. When I was a new caver, it was very important to be part of the local group, and be accepted, have a place to belong, etc. Now, it's not so important -- it's more what I do, and who I am than who I hang out with. Maybe people are skipping that step entirely.
NZcaver wrote:Incentives are good.
ek wrote:NZcaver wrote:Incentives are good.
I'm not so sure about that. Incentives tend to de-emphasize what is actually important about something, in some cases decreasing people's overall motivation to achieve the incentivized result. Incentives also tend to be manipulative, and to effectively carry a subtext that the goal is not worth achieving on its own. Incentives tend to place focus on the quantitatively evaluable aspects of performance, to the denigration of other worthwhile aspects.
ek wrote:Incentives tend to de-emphasize what is actually important about something, in some cases decreasing people's overall motivation to achieve the incentivized result. Incentives also tend to be manipulative, and to effectively carry a subtext that the goal is not worth achieving on its own. Incentives tend to place focus on the quantitatively evaluable aspects of performance, to the denigration of other worthwhile aspects.
NZcaver wrote:In case you missed this, we're talking about a discount from the NSS bookstore - not airline miles or time share points. Incentives need not be mutually exclusive from a person's own motivation for joining, nor are they always a bad thing.
NZcaver wrote:And we all know student grottos aren't real grottos anyway...
(Lest somebody flame me for saying that, I'm friends with members of many student grottos - and they're good people. Even though they are students. I think outing clubs make a great introduction to what may become a life-long interest in caving for a few lucky people. OK, enough said.)
Teresa wrote:As a result of this discussion, I have changed my member preferences to no primary grotto (though I pay dues to three of them). I wonder if others are likely to do so?
Teresa has brought out a wholly different concept on what I was putting out to the list, so...let's see if I can try to explain, for it probably has been kicked around and around...and around for a number of years. But, let me first say, that wasn't in the information that I was first writing about. Whewee!It's about a caver identifying "a particular grotto" as their primary grotto that I don't understand. What advantage is it to the NSS that a caver identify X grotto as their primary grotto over Y grotto? That is what I was asking, because that is what the incentive is being given for-- both new cavers declaring allegiance to a small group, and existing cavers designating that alliance.
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