New deepest pit in Tennessee!!!!

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New deepest pit in Tennessee!!!!

Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 20, 2007 8:57 pm

Saturday we measured the new deepest pit in Tennessee at 285'! Sorry Mystery Falls. It may be a while before any other information is disclosed as the cave in question is a project cave.
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Postby JoeyS » Aug 21, 2007 6:15 am

:kewl:

Is it an open air pit?

Can you disclose the county?
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Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 6:18 am

JoeyS wrote::kewl:

Is it an open air pit?

Can you disclose the county?


It is very deep underground. No, no county, sorry.
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Postby bill fish » Aug 21, 2007 9:26 am

Hi

Well...can ya tell us this?

Is it relavatively easy to get to IN the cave....or a real chore....and more importantly....whats the pit itself like?

That should be info safe to disclose...

And how about a picture or 2? Heck, take photoshop or something and crop/blackout any cavers in the pic so we dont know who to bother with questions ! :)

congrats!

Blll
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Postby John Lovaas » Aug 21, 2007 9:53 am

I'd been reading your trip reports on the "US Caver's Forum", and your depth measurement sounds like it might be an indication of total vertical extent, rather than depth- but then again, this raises the question of just how one states the "depth" of the pit.

One of your crew had written that you bolted up and over from the traditional rigging point into a canyon that was above the dome. If I read the post correctly, you went from the existing drop point up higher into the dome. Or did you find a separate passage that got you to the new, higher rig point?

A lot of domes have vertical extent that goes above the rig point- thus the term "domepit". Does rigging a pit higher than the previous rig point make it "deeper", or does one have to find a route separate from the current measured one to redefine the depth?

I'll let the TAG folks here sort this question out ;-)

I was also reading that you guys measured the pit by tying 7- 45 foot sections of string together- that was certainly novel! Are you unable to drop a tape with a plumb bob down the pit?

Signed- Curious Flatlander ;-)
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Postby Ralph E. Powers » Aug 21, 2007 10:29 am

John Lovaas wrote:A lot of domes have vertical extent that goes above the rig point- thus the term "domepit". Does rigging a pit higher than the previous rig point make it "deeper", or does one have to find a route separate from the current measured one to redefine the depth?
Indeed many dome-pits do that. I know of several and one in particular has a 300 freehang drop at the present rig-entry point but the ceiling extends high out of anyone's (present) headlamp. If there's another entry (far-far) above where one normally rigs then okay that extends the depth of the pit/drop.
Thing is though, if the (new) entry point is merely a bypass that doesn't lead into anymore (other) passages then it's like... what's the point of bypassing to go way up there just so you can drop way down there, when you got a shorter drop to begin with? Of course some of us DO live for that sort of thing :tonguecheek:
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Intriguing

Postby Margie Haven » Aug 21, 2007 10:40 am

:looking: :Hmmmmmmmmm...............Wheels Turning.......Now that's a can of worms to announce, but none the less~~~~quite interesting.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself....
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Postby tncaver » Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am

The current Tennessee Cave Survey policy is to list a pit's depth
for the official record as measured from the lowest rig point. At
least that is the policy for outdoor surface pits. Don't know if it is
different underground or not. I do know of a few exceptions to
that rule that have been allowed anyway. Technically they should
not be listed as deeper than the lowest rig point but a few in the
TCS are listed as being deeper than their lowest rig point.
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Postby Dwight Livingston » Aug 21, 2007 12:34 pm

The deepest pit in West Virginia is 306'. It's all a free drop, and it was all discovered as a bolt climb. Not much passage at the top, no exit there either, so I don't know if you can say it leads anywhere in particular. Now if that disqualifies the top most rig point for the depth measure, would you have to judge the lowest rig point to be somewhere near the bottom? I don't think so.

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Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 1:35 pm

bill fish wrote:Hi

Well...can ya tell us this?

Is it relavatively easy to get to IN the cave....or a real chore....and more importantly....whats the pit itself like?

That should be info safe to disclose...

And how about a picture or 2? Heck, take photoshop or something and crop/blackout any cavers in the pic so we dont know who to bother with questions ! :)

congrats!

Blll


Here goes. This will take a while and alot of posts.

The pit is very very very hard to get to.
The pit is absolutely huge!
No pictures.
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Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 1:45 pm

John Lovaas wrote:I'd been reading your trip reports on the "US Caver's Forum", and your depth measurement sounds like it might be an indication of total vertical extent, rather than depth- but then again, this raises the question of just how one states the "depth" of the pit.

One of your crew had written that you bolted up and over from the traditional rigging point into a canyon that was above the dome. If I read the post correctly, you went from the existing drop point up higher into the dome. Or did you find a separate passage that got you to the new, higher rig point?

A lot of domes have vertical extent that goes above the rig point- thus the term "domepit". Does rigging a pit higher than the previous rig point make it "deeper", or does one have to find a route separate from the current measured one to redefine the depth?

I'll let the TAG folks here sort this question out ;-)

I was also reading that you guys measured the pit by tying 7- 45 foot sections of string together- that was certainly novel! Are you unable to drop a tape with a plumb bob down the pit?

Signed- Curious Flatlander ;-)


The depth was measured from the bolts down to the pit floor.
The total vertical extent of the pit however is a far greater number than I care to announce at this point.
A cave's depth is always measured from the highest point to the lowest point. Why shouldn't a pit's depth be measured in the same way?
We actually did not bolt up, we bolted straight across to the other side. From there we found our way to the high rig-point.
We just wanted a quick measurement so that the depth could be announced asap as we have been hounded and threatened to release this info. We will be using a disto to get the official measurement.
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Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 1:47 pm

Ralph E. Powers wrote:
John Lovaas wrote:A lot of domes have vertical extent that goes above the rig point- thus the term "domepit". Does rigging a pit higher than the previous rig point make it "deeper", or does one have to find a route separate from the current measured one to redefine the depth?
Indeed many dome-pits do that. I know of several and one in particular has a 300 freehang drop at the present rig-entry point but the ceiling extends high out of anyone's (present) headlamp. If there's another entry (far-far) above where one normally rigs then okay that extends the depth of the pit/drop.
Thing is though, if the (new) entry point is merely a bypass that doesn't lead into anymore (other) passages then it's like... what's the point of bypassing to go way up there just so you can drop way down there, when you got a shorter drop to begin with? Of course some of us DO live for that sort of thing :tonguecheek:


The rig point is easy enough to get to compared to all other rig points previously established. The problem for future tourists is hauling the 300' rope to the pit. This is a horror hole of a cave for most, but not for me.
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Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 1:49 pm

tncaver wrote:The current Tennessee Cave Survey policy is to list a pit's depth
for the official record as measured from the lowest rig point. At
least that is the policy for outdoor surface pits. Don't know if it is
different underground or not. I do know of a few exceptions to
that rule that have been allowed anyway. Technically they should
not be listed as deeper than the lowest rig point but a few in the
TCS are listed as being deeper than their lowest rig point.


Two words, Fantastic Pit.
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Re: New deepest pit in Tennessee!!!!

Postby hank moon » Aug 21, 2007 2:06 pm

ACENTHAHOLE wrote:Saturday we measured the new deepest pit in Tennessee at 285'! Sorry Mystery Falls. It may be a while before any other information is disclosed as the cave in question is a project cave.


Obviously, independent confirmation is needed before making a definitive statement. Mystery's still tops until that happens.

Regardless, sounds like a nice find - congratulations!

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Re: New deepest pit in Tennessee!!!!

Postby ACENTHAHOLE » Aug 21, 2007 2:27 pm

hank moon wrote:
ACENTHAHOLE wrote:Saturday we measured the new deepest pit in Tennessee at 285'! Sorry Mystery Falls. It may be a while before any other information is disclosed as the cave in question is a project cave.


Obviously, independent confirmation is needed before making a definitive statement. Mystery's still tops until that happens.

Regardless, sounds like a nice find - congratulations!


((Biting my tongue)). A grade 5 survey is on the way. Incidently the man in charge of surveying Mystery Falls is also involved in this exploration, in fact he is one of our chief surveyors, and he confirms it.
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