Expert's opinion needed to identify animal

[zenas]

From Alexander (Moscow, Russia):

Good evening. This is skull of the rabbit or hare. No doubt. On the skull u can see 2 rows of cutters(the front one cover the back one). This animal felt down to the cave and have died from hunger.rabbits and hares have such teeth that grow all their life.when animal stops to eat its teth continue to grow on and begin to bend(as u can see on the foto). Best regards.

[Partisan]

Good day. IMHO, it is (was :) ) a hare, nor a rabbit, because You say that size of skull is like a dog's. As I know, the skull of a rabbit is smallest (shortest). But is one more haracterely sign of order Lagomorpha (as non-Rodent) - in the nasal hole is a thin net of bone. In other, I agree with all, who tell about "hare felt to the cave and died from hunger...".

[zenas]

Actually like a small dog's head. The size is 13 X 8 cm.
I'll post later more answers i have receive and another photo of the skull.

[zenas]

more answers:

From Germany:
Hello, there is no doubt, that the skull is a rodent. Which one, is impossible to say, because: - rodents are distributed all over the world, - actually there are around 2000 different species described, - no locality is given, - no scale is given , - for determination it is essential to study the patterns on the teeth .... so last but not least: It would be very helpful to collect the skull and send it to a mammals specialist in any museum for determination. Best regards Julia Altmann, Techn. Assistentin, Arachnologie, Senckenberg-Museum, Senckenberganlage 25, D - 60325 Frankfurt a.M.

From France:
Hi! it's a rabbit (or a hare). Regards, e.e.

[zenas]

Another picture of the skull:

[Partisan]

Hello!
Can you make photo from front side? As you look into HIS eyes. I want to see the nasal hole.

[zenas]

The skull left there, it was very ...brittle(?)

[yvonnedroms]

Hi all,

I asked Fred Grady, a Pleistocene cave paleontologist from the Smithsonian, for his thoughts and he answered:

"the upper figure is the skull and jaw of some sort of rabbit, the lower
skull is a rodent probably of the doormouse group an entirly eurasian group that i am pretty unfamiliar with. Fred"

Yvonne Droms

[zenas]

Lagorodent ?

[zenas]

the upper figure is the skull and jaw of some sort of rabbit, the lower
skull is a rodent probably of the doormouse group an entirly eurasian group that i am pretty unfamiliar with. Fred

Thank you Yvonne, but i don't understand. Mr. Fred is reffered to two different photos or to the two parts of the skull ?

[Grandpa Caver]

Perhaps Fred is refering to the jaw as the "lower skull"? It appears to be separeted from the skull. Might the skull belong to one critter & the jaw to another?

[zenas]

No, i don't think this would be possible. This is the exact position they found the bones. How could be from different spieces?

[zenas]

more opinions...

From Dan Redetzke :

Looks similar to some marmont skulls I have seen in the US, but I don't know what sort of foreign relatives it has. Likely related though.


From Rick Winslow (biologist) :

It's a porcupine!

[hewhocaves]

hi Zenas,

I'm gonna have to go with some sort of rodent as well, especially since the teeth continue to grow after death. I'm gonna also say that to make a more specific identification you're going to need additional angles.

If someone goes back - suggestion.

Get as many angles as possible, with something for scale (ruler, mini mag, etc..)
Get photos from several distances as well.

Lastly, I'm not sure about the decomposition rate and / or fossilization rate (if it even fossilizes underground) for bones. It may depend on the cave. My point is, how do you know if it is prehistoric? It might have fallen down there last winter, yes?

John

[zenas]

Yes, we don't know if it is prehistoric or not.