helmet purchasing advice

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helmet purchasing advice

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jul 1, 2007 12:45 am

ok, i've definitely searched the forums and read up on the different helmet options for caving. but one question in particular hasn't been addressed:

what to do when there is only one local source for helmets, and they only carry one brand?

my local outdoor adventure store is a black diamond dealer, so i can definitely get a half dome. but i've heard several complaints about this model (especially re: lack of ventilation... and it's HOT in arkansas), and was hoping to try out an Ecrin Roc or at least have the chance to compare a few different helmets for fitment/comfort before making a purchase decision.

i'm really, really hesitant to buy a $90 Petzl helmet without ever having the chance to put one on my melon and decide if it's the one for me... unless i can find a crazy good deal on a used one.

for sake of reference, i have only gone caving once (without a helmet, but it was a VERY small cave) and am currently trying to contact my local grotto to join up. so i suspect my best bet may be to check out the different models that my fellow cavers are sporting.

but i don't want to be the guy who shows up for his first caving trip with no experience AND no gear, you know?
Last edited by Jeff Bartlett on Jan 30, 2013 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wendy » Jul 1, 2007 6:29 am

I don't think a grotto would expect you to have all your own stuff right out the door, most have loaner helmets for the newbies, or someone in the grotto will have an extra. But ya, see what everyone else is wearing and try them on.

also at events like convention and the TAG fall cave-in the vendors are there and you can do your shopping.
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Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jul 1, 2007 8:37 am

Ask the grotto, I'm sure one of them has a helmet you can borrow. I would definitely try several on before deciding. Don't just get the Black Diamond because it is the only one at that store. You can always mail order a helmet from a caving dealer (see NSS home page) or REI. Make sure you get a helmet with a suspension. I see a lot of cavers buying the new Petzl Elios. Without a suspension, the Elios is only a glorified bike helmet and should not be sold for caving. Check out Petzl, Edelrid, Kong, Blue Water, and JB.
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Postby Wayne Harrison » Jul 1, 2007 8:52 am

Yeah, those non-suspension helmets are a pain to wear:

Image

If you do decide to go with the Roc, Karst Sports has them on sale for $76.50:

http://www.karstsports.com/10301.html

IMO also has a good selection:

http://www.innermountainoutfitters.net/ ... egoryid=15
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Postby Ralph E. Powers » Jul 1, 2007 10:36 am

You should never be hesitant at the amount of money you'll spend for your choice of helmets. I mean how much value do you put on your noggin? How about your brain? How about... your life.
I've had lots of stuff happen to my Petzl Erin Roc helmet with me wearing it and without... it's tough. I'd prefer the best protection that I could afford.
Yes, most grottos have loaners or at least individual cavers have loaners so you have a good chance to try before you buy, which is a good idea anyway.

Good luck with finding the right helmet Be sure to get a pic of it (you wearing it) new then hold on to the pic say... 10 years from now... then make a comparison... :grin:
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Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am

wendy wrote:also at events like convention and the TAG fall cave-in the vendors are there and you can do your shopping.


ooh, i hadn't realized this - that's good info. i also just went on Petzl's website to check for authorized dealers and i found a second one listed in my general area that i'll check out on Monday; hopefully that place has a wider selection of helmets as well.

i'd like to try out a Vertex if i run across one, although it confuses me that karst sports refers to it as the newest helmet in the line, but Petzl.com doesn't even list it. either way, it looks like a suspension helmet that has the lower profile and modern styling of the Elios but the ventilation and protection level of the Ecrin, no? and it comes in black =)
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Postby Teresa » Jul 1, 2007 12:36 pm

Ralph E. Powers wrote:You should never be hesitant at the amount of money you'll spend for your choice of helmets. I mean how much value do you put on your noggin? How about your brain? How about... your life.


It's not how much money to spend on a helmet which protects your brain or your life. For many cavers around here, money is finite. This is why they go caving. It's cheap. Money spent does not equal safety.

If you use your brain (instead of just cover it) and learn how to move in a cave, and be aware every second of your footing, your surroundings and where your head is, then a helmet is useful, but it's the brain inside which counts!
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Postby Ralph E. Powers » Jul 1, 2007 1:01 pm

Teresa wrote:
Ralph E. Powers wrote:You should never be hesitant at the amount of money you'll spend for your choice of helmets. I mean how much value do you put on your noggin? How about your brain? How about... your life.


It's not how much money to spend on a helmet which protects your brain or your life. For many cavers around here, money is finite. This is why they go caving. It's cheap. Money spent does not equal safety.

If you use your brain (instead of just cover it) and learn how to move in a cave, and be aware every second of your footing, your surroundings and where your head is, then a helmet is useful, but it's the brain inside which counts!


This is true, dollar for dollar caving can be one of the inexpensive hobbies/activities out there. A good UIAA approved construction helmet is a good enough choice and they can be picked up at a thrift store for .50 cents or less, they'll have to be modified to have a chin-strap of sorts and I've done that. Many of my earlier caving pics have me wearing a battered construction helmet and I have several spares for the beginners without. I've modified the helmet(s) by adding chin-straps with the purchase of a few (snap) buckles and some spare webbing... good enough... for the simple beginner caves that are out there.
But the deeper you go, the more "extreme" (read: vertical) you get the better the quality of your gear helps immensely, this will include the helmet. A friend got hit by a very large rock 70 feet down a 315 foot shaft and he (and everyone else) feels that his Petzl Erin Roc helmet saved his life. Ended up with 9 stitches in his scalp but that's a lot better than a fractured skull.
If you're serious about it, spend the money. Just like anything else the better quality the better the experience.
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Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jul 1, 2007 1:49 pm

yeah, in all honesty caving doesn't seem to be that expensive. i mean, i'd be very well equipped with an Ecrin Roc and a PT Apex, no? i don't think the ~$80 you'd pay for each is very much at all compared to most other hobbies.

i don't have a lot of money but i'm certainly not trying to bargain shop for potentially life-saving safety equipment. what i'm trying to do is make an informed purchase. i don't mind spending $80 on a helmet, but i do mind spending $80 on a helmet via mail-order and then finding out it doesn't fit my head comfortably.
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Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jul 1, 2007 2:21 pm

also, a local NSS member just pointed out that there is another outfitter that JUST opened in little rock and has a dedicated climbing department, so i'm optimistic that they'll have a few options for me.
"Although it pains me to say it, in this case Jeff is right. Plan accordingly." --Andy Armstrong
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Postby Eve » Jul 1, 2007 2:33 pm

Do try them on ... preferably wear them around for a bit if you can. While most of the helmets available will perform well, you'll find some more comfortable than others. The chin straps on Petzls drive me insane, for example, and that's no small detail when you're wearing one for several hours.
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Postby Teresa » Jul 1, 2007 3:48 pm

I've never argued against having a good climbing helmet for more than scramble climbing or for rope work. But most people don't start out in 300+ deep shafts on rope, and this is a person new to caving who made the inquiry. And if people have lots of disposable income--yep, that keeps the economy humming...

I'm a horizontal caver and will be until I'm horizontal. I think you can count on both hands the number of 100 ft+ pits in Missouri. I have no desire to ever be more than about 50 foot off the floor. (better be a darn good reason for it.) I don't even like hiking along the tops of bluffs.

It's just so often people get caught up in the "if it costs $$$ it must be good." Not true.

Someone could give me $1000 of vertical gear, and I'd still be far more dangerous with it than someone with a figure eight, a diaper sling, and 20 years of experience.
Last edited by Teresa on Jul 1, 2007 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JoeyS » Jul 1, 2007 5:32 pm

And the good news is, (despite all the diversity of opinion) at least you're going to wear a helmet/hardhat. I caved a few times without one. My first wild cave trip was in 1993, as a freshman on a university sanctioned pre-orientation trip. We were not issued helmets or headlights (which in hindsight I find amazingly stupid, from a legal standpoint). :hairpull:

I'm no expert, but I would think that the construction helmet is ok for horizontal trips that aren't to technical (ie, not alot of climb-ups, etc.) but one should be looking for a real climbing helmet if they plan to get on rope.
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Postby adleedy » Jul 1, 2007 6:50 pm

jaa45993 wrote: I see a lot of cavers buying the new Petzl Elios. Without a suspension, the Elios is only a glorified bike helmet and should not be sold for caving.



The Elios is very different than a bike helmet. The Elios actually has a hard shell. Look at the petzl meteor now that is closer to a glorified bike helmet, but it is not advertised for caving.

Dont shy away from the elios, it is a very good helmet. lighter than the ecrin roc, but not as much ventilation.
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Postby Wormster » Jul 2, 2007 3:44 am

I plumped for the Petzl SPELIOS,

what I like about it is that its comfortable and with a BUILT in DUO caplamp and battery box. :kewl:
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