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Postby Squirrel Girl » Jun 18, 2007 4:02 pm

That's very kind of you, Dwight.

:thanks:
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Postby DeWayne » Jun 18, 2007 4:55 pm

Dwight wrote:
Adam Craig wrote:No I haven't... Would you care to elaborate or do I have to read the book?


Oh, but do read the book! Among the two or three best books about a cave trip. Maybe the best.

Dwight


I concur, definitely one of the best reads I have picked up in a while.
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Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jun 18, 2007 7:34 pm

The only headlamps I found on flashlight reviews that is waterproof to the depth you require are the Princeton Tec Matrix 2(-100), Nova 3(-50) Stenlight(20ft), I think that's it.

The Matrix2 seems a pretty simple headlamp (hopefully cheap too) and uses a single side emitting luxeon LED so the light is focusable, so you're probably able to focus so you have a wider beam for a more area lighting.

Other than that the Princeton Tec Apex, Yukon(?) Corona, EOS, Quad are waterproof but only to one metre. :sad: so for diving wouldn't be much use.
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Postby Cheryl Jones » Jun 18, 2007 8:43 pm

Dwight wrote:
Adam Craig wrote:No I haven't... Would you care to elaborate or do I have to read the book?


Oh, but do read the book! Among the two or three best books about a cave trip. Maybe the best.

Dwight


Great book! Buy it here, at the NSS Bookstore :waving: ("the book" is Beyond the Deep)

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Postby Squirrel Girl » Jun 18, 2007 8:50 pm

fuzzy-hair-man wrote:The only headlamps I found on flashlight reviews that is waterproof to the depth you require are the Princeton Tec Matrix 2(-100), Nova 3(-50) Stenlight(20ft), I think that's it.

The Matrix2 seems a pretty simple headlamp (hopefully cheap too) and uses a single side emitting luxeon LED so the light is focusable, so you're probably able to focus so you have a wider beam for a more area lighting.

Other than that the Princeton Tec Apex, Yukon(?) Corona, EOS, Quad are waterproof but only to one metre. :sad: so for diving wouldn't be much use.

Well, the light I posted up asking about doesn't have to function as a dive light. Though it never hurts to discuss lights in general and keep abreast of technology.

I'm not sure how deep it'll go, but this is waterproof and I want one. It won't happen real soon though:
http://www.scurion.ch/ms/index.php?lamp

Lemme ask you geeks though. A long time ago when I got my first LED lamp, it was from Europe and it came with batteries in a pouch. I made a waterproof case and I was later told I didn't have to. I was told it's OK for batteries to get wet. You don't want to store batteries wet, but it's OK if they get wet during use. The, halogen bulbs probably aren't happy wet, but wouldn't LEDs be OK?
Last edited by Squirrel Girl on Jun 18, 2007 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dwight Livingston » Jun 18, 2007 8:53 pm

fuzzy-hair-man wrote:The Matrix2 seems a pretty simple headlamp (hopefully cheap too) and uses a single side emitting luxeon LED so the light is focusable, so you're probably able to focus so you have a wider beam for a more area lighting.


Unfortunately the Matrix II is out of production. I have about 6 and usually carry two as my backup light source. I bought Alex's last one. I'd get more if I could find them. They do not focus but do have a reasonably good beam for caving.

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Postby Squirrel Girl » Jun 18, 2007 9:03 pm

fuzzy-hair-man wrote:Other than that the Princeton Tec Apex, Yukon(?) Corona, EOS, Quad are waterproof but only to one metre. :sad: so for diving wouldn't be much use.
Isn't the Apex notoriously NOT waterproof? Or did they fix it? I'm pretty sure mine is "old" enough to not be safe near water.
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Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jun 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:Well, the light I posted up asking about doesn't have to function as a dive light.

Well in that case I'd get something like a Petzl Tikka or a Princeton Tec Aurora or Quad, nice and small the Tikka AFAIK is not dunk-proof though, at least mine isn't. So you'd get better water resistance from the Princeton Tec ones, on the plus side the Tikka used to have a flick switch and not a press one which I guess is harded to accidentally turn on in a pack.

Squirrel Girl wrote:I'm not sure how deep it'll go, but this is waterproof and I want one. It won't happen real soon though:
http://www.scurion.ch/ms/index.php?lamp

They look very nice! I can't see a price listed though and I'm afraid to ask!

Squirrel Girl wrote:Lemme ask you geeks though. A long time ago when I got my first LED lamp, it was from Europe and it came with batteries in a pouch. I made a waterproof case and I was later told I didn't have to. I was told it's OK for batteries to get wet. You don't want to store batteries wet, but it's OK if they get wet during use. The, halogen bulbs probably aren't happy wet, but wouldn't LEDs be OK?


My Apex behaves funny when it gets water in it, I don't believe that manufacturers would go to the trouble of making these waterproof if it wasn't nessicary, I'd say the battery case maybe able to stand some water (as long as there is no electronics in there some Li Ion batteries have some controlling electronics so the battery can't over discharge) but I'd say the head with the electronics can't get water in it.

I'm not all that familiar with this stuff though so could be wrong.
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Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jun 18, 2007 9:29 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:Other than that the Princeton Tec Apex, Yukon(?) Corona, EOS, Quad are waterproof but only to one metre. :sad: so for diving wouldn't be much use.
Isn't the Apex notoriously NOT waterproof? Or did they fix it? I'm pretty sure mine is "old" enough to not be safe near water.


Sort of..... a vague answer I know, there were fixes to help with waterproofing, these included shortening the screws so they don't crack the front, and doing them up a little tighter, also if you grease the seals with some silicone grease this helps so that it is reasonably waterproof. :kewl:

Near the end of the Apex thread NZCaver did some testing(page 21 onwards), it also appears that having a large temperature difference between the headlamp and the water your putting it into (such as a sump) makes the leaking worse....

I have been through a couple of duck unders with mine since I fixed it and it's OK so far, but I don't really trust it...
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Postby Scott McCrea » Jun 18, 2007 10:06 pm

Why carry an extra light? Just use what you got. I tried my idea of making a reflector out of aluminum foil in the basement tonight and was impressed. I slightly crinkled the square of foil so the light would scatter. Bent it into an "L" shape with sides pulled in a bit so it would stand by itself. I put my PT Eos (1 watt LED) on the bottom of the L, shining at the foil. It lit up a good part of the basement. Plenty of light to move around. I imagine with a brighter light or better yet, several lights spread around the area, you would be bathed in ambiance.
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Postby DeWayne » Jun 19, 2007 1:34 pm

Have you taken a look at OMS's new helmet light Barb? It's a 3W LED depth rated to 100M (330ft.) Mark W has one and says it is very bright, but I have not seen it up close or in the water yet, so I have no idea how tight the beam dispersion is on one. The price seems reasonable on them; I have been finding them retailing for around $60 average. As for wet batteries, the old motorcycle battery around the neck was never sealed from the water. I have had several backups over the years that have flooded and continued to function perfectly. I have also had some higher end lights where just a few drops fried everything. I have since come to the conclusion that the more you pay for the light, the more devasting the effects of moisture will be. Got to love those cheap backup lights that work while you pour a pint of water out of them.
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Postby Squirrel Girl » Jun 19, 2007 2:03 pm

Hi DeWayne--Too bad those OMS folks didn't build a dimmer into that light. Sure the divers wouldn't use it, but everyone else in the world would. Then they could market that baby to a LOT of others and sell a ton more of those lights. Not to mention, if I could get rechargables for those 123s I could use that baby for bicycling. But the way they've got it, it's just slightly imperfect enough to NOT be useful for caving or diving. It's too strong without dimming and too short of life for normal caving.

Otherwise, they could make a bundle on that baby.
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Postby DeWayne » Jun 20, 2007 1:50 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:Hi DeWayne--Too bad those OMS folks didn't build a dimmer into that light. Sure the divers wouldn't use it, but everyone else in the world would. Then they could market that baby to a LOT of others and sell a ton more of those lights. Not to mention, if I could get rechargables for those 123s I could use that baby for bicycling. But the way they've got it, it's just slightly imperfect enough to NOT be useful for caving or diving. It's too strong without dimming and too short of life for normal caving.

Otherwise, they could make a bundle on that baby.


I was not overly impressed by the reported burn times either Barbara, but I do think it is a step in the right direction. You can buy CR123's for about a buck a piece these days, so that is not the hassle it was when this battery first saw use. I have heard some folks complain that the twist-n bezel has some problems, but most of that has come from those verhemently opposed to anything OMS. I am looking forward to seeing how Mark's light performs during the trip, and might be picking one up myself afterwards if I am impressed. Right now, the depth rating, and amount of light does have me interested though. Anything is better than the current 1-3 meters that most helmet lights are rated for.
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Postby Squirrel Girl » Jun 20, 2007 5:17 pm

I agree that the 123s are not the horror they used to be. But the 3 hour burn time sux. OK, so we were FRITZING with my set up, but we spent a LOT of time in the spring pool last weekend. And presumably the worst of it is over and this weekend and we'll get more into diving and less configuring. But I could see using up the batteries during the staging/kitting. Then you have to stop, open up the cave and change batteries? Urk. Not what I want to have to mess with. I guess it's no worse than carbide cap lamps, though (to get back to an early suggestion in this thread :doh: )

OMS. Don't know too much about them. Since I had that hiatus from cave diving for a while, I know they exist, but not too much more. It used to just be Dive Rite. And with my new dive buddy, Jerry, from Dive Rite; he's done nothing be re-confirm my warm fuzzy feelings towards them. YAY Dive Rite! They don't seem to make this kind of light, and I have no desire to dis other companies. But I will certainly lean to supporting Dive Rite every chance I get!
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Postby DeWayne » Jun 22, 2007 1:01 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:I agree that the 123s are not the horror they used to be. But the 3 hour burn time sux. OK, so we were FRITZING with my set up, but we spent a LOT of time in the spring pool last weekend. And presumably the worst of it is over and this weekend and we'll get more into diving and less configuring. But I could see using up the batteries during the staging/kitting. Then you have to stop, open up the cave and change batteries? Urk. Not what I want to have to mess with. I guess it's no worse than carbide cap lamps, though (to get back to an early suggestion in this thread :doh: )

OMS. Don't know too much about them. Since I had that hiatus from cave diving for a while, I know they exist, but not too much more. It used to just be Dive Rite. And with my new dive buddy, Jerry, from Dive Rite; he's done nothing be re-confirm my warm fuzzy feelings towards them. YAY Dive Rite! They don't seem to make this kind of light, and I have no desire to dis other companies. But I will certainly lean to supporting Dive Rite every chance I get!
:banana:


It all comes out of the same factory in Taiwan; each manufacturer may specify slightly different specs for certain components, but the real difference lies in how each manufacturer handles their own customer service (I think this is why so many people dis OMS, although I have never had any problems with using OMS equipment.) I have been a long time supporter of Lamar and DR, despite thinking some of their newer innovations missed the mark (they have great customer service, and design flaws are part of the process of coming out with the nest greatest thing since sliced white bread), but that does not mean I will not try gear from other manufacturers (I look for what works for me at a price that I am happy with.) So what exactly is Lamar sending up to Roppel (been reading the thank you's for the support, but missed the first part I guess)?
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