Bosch Rotary Hammer Drill....

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Bosch Rotary Hammer Drill....

Postby MUD » Jan 9, 2007 10:47 pm

Bosch recently started making a 36 volt cordless rotary hammer drill...runs on lithium-ion batteries. Does anyone have or know anyone using one of these underground or elsewhere? I'm looking into getting one but would like some input if available. It's fairly compact and 36 volts should do mucho drilling. Why let rock stop you??? :grin:
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Postby MUD » Jan 9, 2007 11:35 pm

Here's a pic of what we've been using....she's got us in several places now. But, she's gettin' old!
Image
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Postby caverdoc » Jan 13, 2007 12:55 pm

Cavemud
Thats a sweet Panasonic!
I have a lightweight 12 volt Hitachi I used for some bolting but it just doesn't seem to have much kick. I also have a Bosch Bulldog, an older drill that is pretty reliable. I rewired one of the battery packs to power the drill via 24 of sealed lead-acid oomph...have yet to ever run the drill out of power while caving. Plan is to use smaller lead-acids!

Check ebay. I got an unused Ryobi gas drill for around $250 some years back, complete with all manuals and extra parts. Never seen a drop of gas or oil in it...YET. I'm saving it for some major project. Almost every time I check on ebay there are good drills for sale, usually at good price.

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Bosch Drill

Postby pebblepoint » Jan 16, 2007 1:16 am

This drill has been discussed on the cavedigger forum. If I remember correctly, it will do about 30 4" holes. YOu get only one battery and a replacement is over $200.
I've used a Ryobi gas model since 1995 and can attest to it's value.
Of course, you have to have lots of airflow and no bats before you could use it with any good conscience. And it gives off CO which is heavier than air, so anyone or anything lower than you would be in danger.
After the holes are drilled, you use the wedge and feather method of busting the rock just like the Romans.
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Postby potholer » Jan 28, 2007 7:34 pm

Was that 'CO' meant to be CO2?
CO is basically the same density as air, and I wouldn't have thought it would be expected to separate out significantly, if at all. If anything, it might end up rising initially, as part of a warm exhaust gas mix.
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Postby Realms » Jan 28, 2007 9:15 pm

he was referring to the carbon monoxide (which is heavier than air and will put you to sleep forever if you don't have adequate ventilation...as he mentioned). Its a gas/petrol burner.. aka internal combustion. :-)
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Postby potholer » Jan 29, 2007 4:47 am

I know what CO is, but it isn't heavier than air. It's the same density as nitrogen.
Certainly, good ventilation is needed if using a petrol drill. I just wouldn't want anyone to think they were safer being above the drill rather than below it.
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Postby Realms » Jan 29, 2007 11:15 am

specific gravity is just slightly higher. Nitrogen is .9669 and CO is .96716. However since air has some O2 in it which is 1.1044 I figure it all pushes the CO up up and away (unless you're in a confined space with little airflow obviously. Sorry for the error :-)
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drills

Postby pebblepoint » Jan 29, 2007 6:42 pm

Since I got mine, I guess I can pass on the secret.
I was the eBay high bidder this weekend on a Hilti 36 volt hammer drill. $88. No batteries and no charger.
The guys in cavediggers have been discussing battery packs using 3 sealed lead acid batteries, hard wired with lots of cord to power the 36 volts. 2 if you have a 24 volt.
I ordered 3 8amp batteries for $60 inc. shipping. Weight is 18 lbs plus the drill. These can be separated so that 2 cavers can share the load. A 36 volt factory battery pushes $200 each.
These guys have also made wiring suggestions. I think I can do it.
I have no idea how many holes I can drill with 24 amps but I'll let you know.

Re: the Ryobi discussion: We used it on an entry this last weekend. I knew the cave didn't have great air or volume so we were careful. I got about 16 holes made before the shut-it-off cry came. From there, we were able to use a spud bar and sledge to do the job.
Be very careful using a gas engine in a cave, both for your sake and the sake of whatever life is in there. (In this case, we had seen no bats, salamanders or crickets).
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drills

Postby pebblepoint » Jan 29, 2007 6:42 pm

Since I got mine, I guess I can pass on the secret.
I was the eBay high bidder this weekend on a Hilti 36 volt hammer drill. $88. No batteries and no charger.
The guys in cavediggers have been discussing battery packs using 3 sealed lead acid batteries, hard wired with lots of cord to power the 36 volts. 2 if you have a 24 volt.
I ordered 3 8amp batteries for $60 inc. shipping. Weight is 18 lbs plus the drill. These can be separated so that 2 cavers can share the load. A 36 volt factory battery pushes $200 each.
These guys have also made wiring suggestions. I think I can do it.
I have no idea how many holes I can drill with 24 amps but I'll let you know.

Re: the Ryobi discussion: We used it on an entry this last weekend. I knew the cave didn't have great air or volume so we were careful. I got about 16 holes made before the shut-it-off cry came. From there, we were able to use a spud bar and sledge to do the job.
Be very careful using a gas engine in a cave, both for your sake and the sake of whatever life is in there. (In this case, we had seen no bats, salamanders or crickets).
don
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Postby tlong_geo » Feb 1, 2007 11:15 am

That's actually my Panasonic pictured in Cavemud's post. Its uses a 24V 3.0 amp-hr Ni-Mh battery (came with 2) and would do at least three holes per battery when new (0.5" diam holes 18" deep in hard limestone). We've used it alot, with much success (recently used it to "dig" through 20-some feet of solid limestone to gain entrance to a cave, following airflow at a joint/bedding plane intersection). Now that one battery is dead and the other is dyin', I'm lookin to re-wire it for external batteries. I did find a new battery for fairly cheap in an eBay store, though. I also occassionally find boxes of Pyrodex relatively cheap on eBay, for those interested in that sort of thing. :whistle:
Gotta love that rotary hammer drill! And to think we used to let mere rock stop us . . .
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Postby Realms » Feb 1, 2007 4:01 pm

Batteries Plus is a chain and if you have one in your area is a decent supplier of various batteries :-)
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Re: Bosch Rotary Hammer Drill....

Postby bperkins » Feb 2, 2007 12:15 pm

Cavemud wrote:Bosch recently started making a 36 volt cordless rotary hammer drill...runs on lithium-ion batteries. Does anyone have or know anyone using one of these underground or elsewhere? I'm looking into getting one but would like some input if available. It's fairly compact and 36 volts should do mucho drilling. Why let rock stop you??? :grin:

I recently got one back in December. I went in half with a fellow caver and purchased it from http://www.toolauthority.com. It is expensive at nearly $600 but not too bad if you split it with someone else. Bosch was running a special promo where you got one free battery if you purchased it during December. So we ended up w/ 3 batteries, charger, new drill, warranty etc. for $600.

Anxious to see how it would perform, I took it to a local project that involved 1/2" 22" long holes. It drilled two of those on 1 battery. The switch for changing between drill, hammer-drill, and hammer protrudes from the side of the drill. The switch bumped up against the wall and moved with me knowing it until I noticed the bit wasn't turning. Well, somehow the switch got screwed up and it didn't lock into place. The drill would still work and switch from different modes but the switch didn't work properly. I got back home that day and one of the batteries didn't recharge.

So I called Bosch and they sent me a new drill and battery and I sent the drill and battery back. I was disappointed with the drill but they made it right so I can't complain. The warranty is bomber on this drill and battery. They'll replace the drill for 1 year and batteries for 2 years.

We took the new drill into another cave and did a short bolt climb. We put in four bolts and it barely even touched the battery. The battery indicator indicated 2/3 charge left. The drill was covered in mud. I cleaned it up afterwards and everything worked. That about all I know right now.

Brian
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Postby MUD » Feb 2, 2007 12:49 pm

Please keep us all posted on the performance of the Bosch....I'm really leaning toward's this and appreciate your report!
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Postby DanGreen » Feb 24, 2007 11:31 am

The Alberta Speleological Society got one of the new 36V Bosch hammer drills late in the 06 alpine season. It's has so far been great, easily better than other drills anyone here has used. With battery installed, it's less than 9 pounds too, and the batteries are flattish and pack well. The L-ION batteries thrive in the cold temperatures here, and the batteries have power-level indicator LED lights. At the current depth we are exploring, we can manage to rig and survey about four or five drops on push trips with a small team, and the battery doesn't even come close to draining to half so we don't even take the spare along. We haven't test drained it, but I'd say that getting 20-30 long 3/8" bolts is possible. If we need to aid, we could take a second battery, but we're on 1/4" bolts then so it's really not needed. Overall, it seems with a team of two or three rigging, we can't carry enough rope to exploit the capacity of the battery. It was a great purchase.
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