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batrotter wrote:These are the same guys in Indiana from the DNR Law Enforcement Division that are trying to muscle there way into cave rescue. They came to the Indiana Cave Survey wanting us to hand over cave locations located on state property. We refused to give them any locations.
NZcaver wrote:[An "us and them" mentality is seldom beneficial to either party. Or am I missing something here?
cob wrote:no offense NZ... but what you are missing is the preconceived "us and them" mentality that "they" already come to it with. They are the "professionals"...
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There is a diff between us and them.... "We" think being underground is normal, natural... "they" think running into burning buildings is "Normal, natural"... but they won't give us the respect due, and they don't understand, when we won't give out cave locations just because they are the "professionals"....
All too often, just because somebody is from the gov't, they think that gives them the right to everything.
tom
NZcaver wrote:I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but I am curious. Why not share cave locations on state land with them - or at least try to strike up a more positive relationship?
If you say they're trying to "muscle" into cave rescue, there's obviously some attitude/politics involved here. But during an actual rescue, is it possible DNR LEOs might be the ones responsible for managing an incident on state land? If they're smart, they'd work on keeping a good relationship with cavers so they have experienced volunteers to help them out. An "us and them" mentality is seldom beneficial to either party. Or am I missing something here?
Teresa wrote:It's rather a moot point with the MSS, since the MSS has a signed agreement specifying the conditions of data sharing of the MSS with the state agencies.
This cuts two ways. The agency people also share information with us, and actually a fair amount of MSS data is that collected by the state and feds on company time.
Sharing cave locations with state or federal agencies does NOT make them subject to FOIA requests, IF the information shared is considered and treated as proprietary
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