A dangerous hobby if untrained

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A dangerous hobby if untrained

Postby Evan G » Aug 17, 2006 9:51 pm

Cave diving is dangerous! In Suwannee County, according to Chief Suwannee County Deputy Ron Colvin, there have been five cave-diving related deaths in the past five years.

John Orlowsky is the Sheriff’s Office go-to guy for recoveries. Colvin said often they don’t have to call someone to recover a dead diver because their buddies go in, find them and bring them out. For river rescues and recoveries, the Suwannee County Sheriff’s Office uses the Taylor County dive team.

Orlowsky has been on many recoveries. He pulled two out of Convict Springs in Lafayette County in the early 90s. In May of 2003 Orlowsky pulled a diver out of Cow Springs. According to Orlowsky, the diver was found in the upstream section of the spring with gas in the tanks and a full buddy bottle.

Right after New Year’s Eve in 2005, Orlowsky pulled a diver out of Peacock 3. This diver was cavern-certified only and Orlowsky found him 1300 feet into the system. From the diver’s wrist-mounted computer, Orlowsky determined the diver had descended as far as 180 feet. He was found at 55-60 feet. His death was ultimately attributed to a heart attack, according to the Suwannee County Sheriff’s Office.

On Nov. 8 in 2002, a diver was recovered from a Peacock Springs cave. This diver also died of a heart attack.


<a href="http://www.suwanneedemocrat.com/suwanneesports/local_story_229180626.html">Full Cave Diving Story</a>
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Postby wendy » Aug 17, 2006 10:09 pm

Also most trained cave diver deaths are due to medical problems, as was the case of the May 2003 death at Cow Springs.

There is also the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery group (http://www.iucrr.org). I am a member of it, and have worked a fatality at Little River Spring in Florida. I became a member of this rescue and recovery group after I was present for a double fatilaity at Royal Spring in Florida. Those two deaths were brand new (one just got cert to open water dive that day) divers. They were told not to go in, but they just had to go look in a little bit. Both died while their families waited at the surface for them to come up. They recovered 2 and 3 days later. This group was formed to assist local law enforcement in rescues and recoveries. Most sheriff's dept dive teams are not cave cert, i only know a few that are even cavern certified.

I have gotten what I call the 'cave monster' in my head before. That feeling that I don't need to be where I am at, and I have no problem with calling the dive.

In cave diving there is many rules to follow, but one that goes unquesitoned is that any diver can call the dive, at anytime, for any reason. No questions asked. If someone gives the thumbs up (the sign to exit) the entire team exits the cave. Doesn't matter if they traveled 1000 miles to dive that cave, the thumbs up ends the dive.
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Postby kelly » Aug 18, 2006 6:44 am

wendy wrote:Also most trained cave diver deaths are due to medical problems, as was the case of the May 2003 death at Cow Springs.

.


plus exceeding an experience level -those are the two primary categories of trained cave diving fatalities.
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Postby JohnL » Aug 18, 2006 8:08 am

wendy wrote:In cave diving there is many rules to follow, but one that goes unquestioned is that any diver can call the dive, at anytime, for any reason. No questions asked. If someone gives the thumbs up (the sign to exit) the entire team exits the cave. Doesn't matter if they traveled 1000 miles to dive that cave, the thumbs up ends the dive.


Pardon me if I show my ignorance but isn't that the norm to all caving? be it underwater or underground? You cave as the limits of your weakest member.

Is there any books you would recommend for reading? I would like to understand better the challenges of cave diving versus say wreck diving
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Postby cob » Aug 18, 2006 1:41 pm

JohnL wrote:Is there any books you would recommend for reading? I would like to understand better the challenges of cave diving versus say wreck diving


Let me be the first to recommend "Shadow Divers" by Robert Kurson for a full on, first hand view of wreck diving.

You won't be sorry.

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Postby wendy » Aug 18, 2006 5:38 pm

JohnL wrote:
wendy wrote:In cave diving there is many rules to follow, but one that goes unquestioned is that any diver can call the dive, at anytime, for any reason. No questions asked. If someone gives the thumbs up (the sign to exit) the entire team exits the cave. Doesn't matter if they traveled 1000 miles to dive that cave, the thumbs up ends the dive.


Pardon me if I show my ignorance but isn't that the norm to all caving? be it underwater or underground? You cave as the limits of your weakest member.

Is there any books you would recommend for reading? I would like to understand better the challenges of cave diving versus say wreck diving


It doesn't have to be the weakest member that is calling the dive, any member, the biggest bad ass on your team may have a bad feeling and call the dive...or maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean by the weakest member. But yes that should be the rule in any caving, if someone ain't happy about it and wants to go, you all go.

I like the book, Caverns Measureless to Man, by Sheck Exley.
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Postby David_Campen » Aug 18, 2006 7:21 pm

There is also the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery group (http://www.iucrr.org).

Underwater Cave Rescue, that is an interesting concept, how many of these have there been?
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Postby wendy » Aug 18, 2006 7:33 pm

David_Campen wrote:
There is also the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery group (http://www.iucrr.org).

Underwater Cave Rescue, that is an interesting concept, how many of these have there been?


I can think of at least 2 off the top of my head.

"Victim and buddy were diving with two
others and were not using lines while exploring the cave. Stirred up the
viz and attempted to find line. Buddy found line and went the wrong way
into cave, went to end of line and then turned to exit. Victim went back
to find the air pocket they had explored earlier and found the pocket w/
170 psi remaining in tank. Crawled onto ledge and waited 6 hrs to be
rescued. They placed light at entrance of cave and poked glow sticks
into silt while moving about. Diving for 6 yrs and have done no OW dives out of class, all cave."

"ThunderHole had algae bloom on the surface and less than 2' visibility. The upper level of the cave had 1' visibility to a depth of 30' then clear water. victim never had contact with permanent line at entrance. She fell into the cave entrance opposite the line and into small room that is very difficult to get out of with back mount and stage bottles. She had hit it just right and fell into it. With no knowledge of the site she had no mental picture of the cave. She attempted line search and jammed her reel, then lost her knife trying to fix the jam. She settled on the ceiling and creating an air pocket at 8'. She then used her stage bottle then oxygen bottle to breathe. She breathed her exhalations in the air pocket until stale. She heard vehicles on the scence (most likely the diesel wrecker that towed her van). After the vehicl was gone I enterd the water and started the search for the body in the alcove off to the right in the zero visibility. I heard banging and checked out the ceiling, I yelled her name and got a response. After about 10 minutes I found her on a ledge at 20' still alive. I brought her out to safety. "

These two were copied from the IUCRR website.. A cave diving accidents that the IUCRR are involved in are listed and the analysis available for public view.
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Postby kelly » Aug 18, 2006 8:10 pm

wendy wrote:
David_Campen wrote:
There is also the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery group (http://www.iucrr.org).

Underwater Cave Rescue, that is an interesting concept, how many of these have there been?


I can think of at least 2 off the top of my head.

"Victim and buddy were diving with two
others and were not using lines while exploring the cave. Stirred up the
viz and attempted to find line. Buddy found line and went the wrong way
into cave, went to end of line and then turned to exit. Victim went back
to find the air pocket they had explored earlier and found the pocket w/
170 psi remaining in tank. Crawled onto ledge and waited 6 hrs to be
rescued. They placed light at entrance of cave and poked glow sticks
into silt while moving about. Diving for 6 yrs and have done no OW dives out of class, all cave."

"ThunderHole had algae bloom on the surface and less than 2' visibility. The upper level of the cave had 1' visibility to a depth of 30' then clear water. victim never had contact with permanent line at entrance. She fell into the cave entrance opposite the line and into small room that is very difficult to get out of with back mount and stage bottles. She had hit it just right and fell into it. With no knowledge of the site she had no mental picture of the cave. She attempted line search and jammed her reel, then lost her knife trying to fix the jam. She settled on the ceiling and creating an air pocket at 8'. She then used her stage bottle then oxygen bottle to breathe. She breathed her exhalations in the air pocket until stale. She heard vehicles on the scence (most likely the diesel wrecker that towed her van). After the vehicl was gone I enterd the water and started the search for the body in the alcove off to the right in the zero visibility. I heard banging and checked out the ceiling, I yelled her name and got a response. After about 10 minutes I found her on a ledge at 20' still alive. I brought her out to safety. "

These two were copied from the IUCRR website.. A cave diving accidents that the IUCRR are involved in are listed and the analysis available for public view.


I can think of one that occured in Venezeula (somewhere in that area),Nickajack lake cave in the 90s, Otter springs with Woody Jasper around 1990.
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Postby JohnL » Aug 18, 2006 9:34 pm

By weakest member I was meaning whoever was the slowest or not the most athletic in the group and thats the speed you go.
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Postby wendy » Aug 18, 2006 10:03 pm

JohnL wrote:By weakest member I was meaning whoever was the slowest or not the most athletic in the group and thats the speed you go.


ya I have dived in buddy teams and we let the slowest swimmer set the pace, and of course we due dissimilar tank equations and figure out the turn pressure based on the person with the smallest tanks, and also i have been in a buddy team where the person with the less power light is always in front, that way the person with the stronger light won't wash out the other persons beam, since in cave diving communicaiton is by light signals and hand signals.
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Hi to Wendy

Postby cavern_hiker » Aug 28, 2006 2:56 pm

Hi Wendy

I've read some posts of yours and actually came looking for a post from you today because I was wondering, with your cave diving and law enforcement bacground, if you ever participated in cave diving rescues. I found my own answer just by reading this set of posts.
I'm a volunteer firefighter and am familiar with the use of an air pack, very different on land than in the water. Underwater, your equipment is much lighter, but the resistance of the water on your equipment and body makes moving through it harder I'm sure. I was wondering if medical problems like heart attacks is usually the reason for diver deaths?
Take care in that hurricane. I'm keeping an eye on him myself.

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Re: Hi to Wendy

Postby kelly » Aug 30, 2006 5:35 am

cavern_hiker wrote: I was wondering if medical problems like heart attacks is usually the reason for diver deaths?


Typically cave divers tending to have a higher median age than open water divers,although we don't have any reliable demographics. Fatalities among trained cave divers fall into 2 categories generally-exceeding an experience level,and medical related. Two accidents in recent memory one was more likely a heart problem from an older gentleman,and a younger female cave diver who I understand had a valve defect. Personally I find dry caving more physically stressful than cave diving,but I do 100 cave dives per year and have acclimated somewhat :-)
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Postby JohnL » Sep 2, 2006 10:58 am

I just finished Shadow Divers, Man I got to say that was an awesome book. I can't honestly remember getting that deep in a book and bonding with the characters.
Thanks for pointing it out now what's another good book to read?
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Postby wendy » Sep 2, 2006 5:44 pm

JohnL wrote:I just finished Shadow Divers, Man I got to say that was an awesome book. I can't honestly remember getting that deep in a book and bonding with the characters.
Thanks for pointing it out now what's another good book to read?


Have you read Caverns Measureless to Man by Sheck Exley? Its a good book and tells alot about the early days of cave diving. Also there is non-fiction book called The Last Dive about a father and son who cave dive together (and also wreck dive).
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