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Anonymous_Coward wrote:I carry a Petzl Mini PMP, a Petzl Partner pulley and two prusik cords. This all fits in a quart-sized Ziploc. It is a 3:1 in a bag, just add rope and carabiners. The PMP and one prusik (or none) can be used to build counterbalance hauls.
The way I learned the correct length for rescue prusiks is to cut 10 feet of cord into 4.5 and 5.5 foot lengths. This gives you a long and short prusik in the correct lengths for a tandem triple wrap prusik belay. I have found that with the mini pulleys it is advisable to add one more wrap to the triples to end up with quadruple wrap prusiks. This minimizes slack in the loops and will provide more efficient progress capture and space savings in tight quarters.
chh wrote:900 feet huh? You definitely want to stay away from anything but a 1:1 with a crapload of people, or a counter balance. Anything else will take too long and amplify your problems.
Also, as has been said, the most important thing is to make sure that your rig point is placed well enough to do anything you anticipate needing to do at the top (like move someone around who may or may not be able to help you out).
Preparing for small party rescue is awesome, but keep in mind that in doing so you are signing on for doing at least 10 times the amount of work you just did caving. I think the most crucial part of a rescue pre-plan is having a competent call out list or phone tree. Something that sets a lot of the right people moving quickly. (provided someone can get to a phone in time which may or may not be a reality) Get some help as soon as possible. Seems to me rescue "successes" happen on a two-fold front. First, the parties involved are competent and do everything that is possible to do with limited resource to move the patient towards help. Second, help gets there and expedites the timeline.
chh wrote: Preparing for small party rescue is awesome, but keep in mind that in doing so you are signing on for doing at least 10 times the amount of work you just did caving. I think the most crucial part of a rescue pre-plan is having a competent call out list or phone tree. Something that sets a lot of the right people moving quickly. (provided someone can get to a phone in time which may or may not be a reality) Get some help as soon as possible.
OpenTrackRacer wrote:Looking at the Mini Traxion and Pro Traxion, their 2.5kN working loads seem to be awfully low for rescue rigging. I'd much rather have the 8kN working load of the Minder PMP combined with the simple operation and reliability of a prusik.
In addition, I'd rather not rappel or ascend on rope supported by a toothed cam device (if the haul system is pre-rigged).
OpenTrackRacer wrote:I have no idea how you go about lowering the load with a Micro Traxion or Pro Traxon. I do know what to do with a prusik and PMP (and it's pretty simple). With the Traxion devices, if you're doing a lower and everyone drops dead (yes, hands off), what happens? Does one manually hold the cam open and it engages when released? What if the load started to get away? I'd much rather have the prusik engage than the toothed cam on the Traxion twins.
As for the loading, the 2.5kN is indeed for the cam engaged but for progress capture that's exactly what counts. I don't know... maybe I'm just being too conservative. I'm usually a gadget freak but in this case the "old fashioned" solution seems to me to be the best one. Then again, I'd rather use the Rescucender to haul the line versus a prusik so go figure.
NZcaver wrote:Rule number one, Mike - don't drop dead. There was no whistle test when you were belaying with a Munter in level 1, was there? The cams on the Traxions do lock in the disengaged position, yes. You would likely have at least 2-3 people controlling the lower while another one tends the PCD and re-engages the cam. Lowering through a haul system is only really a short-distance convenience - like down-climbing on ascenders - and for any significant distance you would be wise to change over to a fixed brake lower.
NZcaver wrote:Sure, it's good to pick and choose options for yourgadget collectioncontingency plan. And yes, having a camming device with teeth anchoring the system or providing progress capture could potentially be catastrophic if your high help or redirect or whatever blows out and the system sustains a massive shock load. Especially if you're running single rope and no belay.
NZcaver wrote:For now, make yourself up a Prusik loop or two and buy that Rescucender and Minder pulley you so desperately want. You'll need a second pulley, so unless you already have something you might as well pick up a second Minder in case you need to reconfigure and use it to mind another Prusik. If not, just get yourself a nice smooth pulley to crank on. A haul system works best when the first pulley the rope goes through (nearest to the haul team) is reasonably efficient. Then you'll want to pick up a pulley for your high help redirect, and more pulleys to increase your MA, yada yada yada.
Then when you do your next NCRC class - or the one after that - you'll buy yourself a Micro Traxion and some small pulleys, and make up a little emergency kit to carry with you. And learn how to reconfigure your climbing system to assist other people, and rig counterbalance systems, and more. You'll be beside yourself with excitement.
NZcaver wrote:Just ask the 5 NCRC instructors who have been replying to you in this topic.
snoboy wrote:Something to be aware of is the potential for the Pro Trax to fail:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... _id=808440
It's not that popular among aid climbers for this reason. Apparently the Mini Trax has a better reputation.
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