Moderator: Tim White
paul wrote:Yes, we should always check and double check, but it is easier for this to happen than you might think - for the clipped karabiner to be suspended by the keeper rather than the quick draw. See http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68190 for a video demonstration.
NZcaver wrote:paul wrote:Yes, we should always check and double check, but it is easier for this to happen than you might think - for the clipped karabiner to be suspended by the keeper rather than the quick draw. See http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68190 for a video demonstration.
Interesting video, and definitely worth watching. Do many climbers use those dyneema sling loops with keepers for clipping into protection during a climb? Unless I'm misunderstanding, this particular accident happened using sewn quickdraws (dogbones) - NOT dyneema sling loops. The same failure mode does not apply.
Apparently, the quickdraws used to equip the route were slung incorrectly, which resulted in total failure and a groundfall. Details regarding the improper usage of the quickdraws are still vague, however, a rough translation of Grimper's report notes that the slings on the draws were attached to the carabiners incorrectly. The report indicates that the slings were improperly attached to the plastic/rubber device used to keep the carabiners from turning on the slings. Therefore these mechanisms were the only attachment between the sling and the carabiner and are apparently what failed as they are not intended to hold a fall
DANGER: Do not use an open webbing sling equipped with a STRING, as the potential for misuse is too high
paul wrote:Presumably these were not dogbones but ordinary quickdraws of the very short sling variety as indicated by the text in bold above..
NZcaver wrote:paul wrote:Presumably these were not dogbones but ordinary quickdraws of the very short sling variety as indicated by the text in bold above..
I read that, but did not make the same presumption you did. In my understanding, a loop sling is not considered a "quickdraw" at all. Wikipedia and Petzl documents seem to concur.
Look closely at the photo in your link of the unfortunate young Tito. You will see on this occasion (years earlier) his belay rope appears to be clipped into a quickdraw (dogbone) attached to a bolt below him as you might expect. The original post in this topic implies whoever attached the carabiners to the quickdraws used when the accident occurred may have somehow threaded them through the rubber keepers (Strings) without actually feeding them through the webbing itself. I can't imagine how anybody with any climbing knowledge could make a gross error like that, but the article did say "the quickdraws used to equip the route were slung incorrectly." Eight quickdraws, to be exact. This implies to me it was not an isolated case of one sling moving around in a gear bag and becoming suicide-clipped through its own carabiner.
Edited to add: A simple Google search confirmed my suspicions. See this article and the image below.
paul wrote:I suppose someone may have threaded the katabiner through a rubber ring and then attach the ring to a quickdraw but that seems incredible to me.
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