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rjack wrote:I would not offer to share maps with anyone I spontaneously meet on a trail, "rescue certified" or not. They can get miffed or whatever, I would politely tell them I can't share with strangers. They would need to contact and join the grotto for more information about caves and caving.
I apologize if I came across stating that it was illegal. I guess what I meant to do was just ask if anyone was aware of it being an issue. I'm just curious - looking at it from my land surveying background...rjack wrote:Its not illegal to make maps despite NWsurveyor's claim that topographic drawings are strictly the purvey of licensed surveyors. I don't have a PLS or PE stamp and I am not certifying my maps for anything at any time and they serve no legal purpose under the laws cited. The argument that a cave map is bound to legal standards of accuracy is like saying a Ansel Adams photograph shows topography and needs a scale bar and north arrow.
I feel like most folks posting here are less than familiar with the MRA. In hind sight it makes sense since this is a cave forum. All I can really speak to is how things operate in my little corner of the world. There aren't many cave rescues, but the ones I'm aware of were performed by MRA teams. I tried to explain the process earlier in this thread. I could have done more to foster that Grotto / rescue team relationship. I did reach out a few more times, but I didn't join the Grotto. I'm sure that would have helped... When you get into trouble in the mountains, you pray for MRA teams out here.rjack wrote:I would not offer to share maps with anyone I spontaneously meet on a trail, "rescue certified" or not. They can get miffed or whatever, I would politely tell them I can't share with strangers. They would need to contact and join the grotto for more information about caves and caving.
Is it possible that what you refer to as State rescue teams could be the same as the MRA teams I've mentioned. Since mountaineering is prevalent here, these teams are primary, where in less mountainous areas, different rescue organization would be necessary. I'm just asking... I can understand how a Grotto might think it's odd that an MRA team would ask for help with cave maps.rjack wrote:Its the grotto's role to coordinate with state and provincial rescue teams. That's why grottos have elected representatives speaking on behalf of the caving community. If my grotto's elected board wants to share information with government agencies - rescue or otherwise, they bring it up for discussion with the members and a democratic decision on what information and/or maps to release is decided upon.
NWSurveyor wrote: I can understand how a Grotto might think it's odd that an MRA team would ask for help with cave maps.
Aaron Addison wrote:NWSurveyor wrote: I can understand how a Grotto might think it's odd that an MRA team would ask for help with cave maps.
Then surely you can understand why cavers might think it is odd that the MRA community feels compelled to get into the cave rescue business when there are already local grottoes with the resources and experience to conduct the rare cave rescue.
MRA could reduce their cave gear stash to just a couple of phone numbers.
Why the need to reinvent the wheel?
Aaron Addison wrote:right. and mountain rescue groups are not cave rescue groups.
NZcaver wrote:I can name at least a couple that are. And one of them is right there in Oregon. Douglas County Mountain Rescue.
Care to try pitching another one? You seem to be on a roll with all this expert talk.
NZcaver wrote:Because grottos are caving groups, not rescue groups.
NZcaver wrote:I've been helping facilitate this type of thing in various places around the US for a while now, so I've got a pretty good feeling for it.
Aaron Addison wrote:....and there are grottoes that focus on cave rescue.
The running theme in your logic seems to be that whatever profession or organization you belong to is above cavers and their activities.
but consider this: EVERY serious cave rescue person that I have known in over 25 years of caving has no trouble obtaining the cave maps that they need for their region.
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