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Other rescue teams are called in. There are a few MRA teams in OR that would join in if asked and 6 MRA teams as well a handful of SAR teams for WA that would respond if needed. The IC just makes the request through DEM. Individuals are utilized where they're talented.Chads93GT wrote:so in your neck of the woods, what happens when your rescue teams run out of energy because they have been at it non stop for 20-30 hours? Refuse help?
Thanks for pointing this out. It happens often and is not an issue. I should have pointed out that I was referring to the technical aspects of rope rescue, i.e. anchor building, etc.Chads93GT wrote:Also,, you always have a team leader in rescue no? What is wrong with that team leader giving directions to people who are there to help. Not every person has to have training to carry a skid, sometimes you simply need bodies to negotiate things. Cavers learn at a very very fast curve during a rescue. Tell them what to do, they do it.
Caves have the potential to be extremely dangerous - just like mountains but you can get maps for those, even detailed route descriptions and topos. Regarding cave maps specifically, because it's potentially dangerous isn't a reason to keep the maps private, it's a reason to share.Chads93GT wrote:Most of those other hobbies include the availability of a phone call if you have an accident too. Caves aren't hiking trails. Caves are very dangerous compared to other recreational options. Generally speaking people don't destroy hiking trails. Etc with sledge hammers and spray paint.
Those of us who map caves. Especially pristine and beautiful caves, feel obligated to protect the location from speleoboppers. If you really want to know where caves are, you could always go looking for them like some of us ;). Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
After one of our team cave rescue training exercises, we were hiking our gear out through the forest and ran into a small group of cavers hiking in. I stopped to chat when they asked what we were doing and discovered they were members of the local Grotto. I didn't know more information even existed, but I expressed interest in working with them in cave rescue training and asked if they'd be willing to share information they might have that we didn't on particularly dangerous cave systems. I was told no and quickly given the cold shoulder. We walked on in dismay. They wanted no association with us.
NWSurveyor wrote:Certified, in this context, means that you ARE qualified.
NWSurveyor wrote:You just got done saying that the NCRC class taught you that you were not certified (qualified?) in cave rescue. In fact you did get a certificate, but you are only qualified in self rescue. Why do you think they made a point to tell you that you weren’t certified in cave rescue?
NWSurveyor wrote:It’s certainly the IC’s prerogative to ask anyone they want for help. As an example, let’s say you’re on scene and you assert your qualifications to the IC and they agree to let you help. During the operation you get injured or killed. Guess who is liable? The County Sheriff’s Department is. Do you think they’re going to think twice about you assisting based on what you 'say' your experience is? Back to the Mission Number - If you are on a certified rescue team, then you are covered under the State’s Labor & Industries Insurance. OR and WA recognize teams trained under the guidelines and safety factors set forth in the Mountain Rescue Association (MRA) as qualified high angle technical rope rescue teams. These are paramedics and firefighters (as you so eloquently put it), but they are also volunteers on the team with local cavers, mountaineers, rock climbers, back country skiers, etc. Since you apparently don’t know much about actual rescue teams, I can tell you most teams have 2 to 3 training operations every month and ours had an annual high angle rope rescue course that is 40 hours total. We trained in confined spaces, caves, urban, and wilderness environments and most were at least Wilderness First Responders or EMT's. In order to have and maintain the MRA certificate, the team gets tested by the MRA on field operations ever few years. It’s no surprise that States recognize this certification. The local teams membership roster is kept updated at the DEM.
Chads93GT wrote:Most of those other hobbies include the availability of a phone call if you have an accident too. Caves aren't hiking trails. Caves are very dangerous compared to other recreational options. Generally speaking people don't destroy hiking trails. Etc with sledge hammers and spray paint.
Those of us who map caves. Especially pristine and beautiful caves, feel obligated to protect the location from speleoboppers. If you really want to know where caves are, you could always go looking for them like some of us ;). Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
Unbelievable, I guess I'll add selfish and condescending to lying and arrogance.Extremeophile wrote:All very impressive. What little I know about rescue teams is that most members are selfless and don't have a condescending attitude.
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