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tncaver wrote:I said "I am losing my will to be tolerant of fellow cavers who want to FORCE their ideals upon everyone else." I did not say anything about
forcing people to smoke or not smoke.
tncaver wrote:You don't have to read this or any other thread if you don't like what is written.
Cody JW wrote:Do not bring the patch into this. My wife tried the patch and it did not work. She could not keep it lit.
Cody JW wrote:Also smells familiar- they may teach "history" in schools but they do not teach things like how and why this nation was founded.
Cody JW wrote:It seems to me you are wanting to throw gas on the "no politics on cave chat " fire.
Cody JW wrote:I guess it is ok to stomp on cave life and disturb bats but god forbid a cigarette. What about carbide lights?? Some people still use them. Choices, it is all about choices. If your whittle lungs cannot handle smoke in a cave I guess there is always bird watching, unless someone gets within 2 miles of you with a cigarette. Then I am sure you will cry like a rat eating onions . I do not care if people smoke in caves or not. You are the one forcing your ideas on others , not me.
Cody JW wrote:Hey Smells Familiar, I bet you drive a car every day. You know I have to breathe the fumes from your car because we live in the same area ( Central Indiana I assume) . Maybe those who want to cry about second hand smoke can live in hyperbaric chamber with no outside influence. The water you drink , city or well is contaminated to a certain degree. Maybe a double reverse osmosis system with additional filtration ?? My point is if you live life on this planet your body is going to be subjected to many potential contaminates , you have MUCH more to worry about than being in a 2 mile cave with somebody smoking in that cave the same day. If you live in Indianapolis , check the air quality index, then see how much cigarette smoke contributes to that. Meanwhile get in your car and spew those contaminates all over the air I breathe. Do not worry, i do not care. I will make a deal with you. If you no longer drive your car and pollute my air , I will no longer allow people on my cave trips to stink up the cave air. I mean if we are going to regulate, lets regulate.
Smells_Familiar wrote:3) It's clear that the "no politics on these boards" rule is not enforced in the slightest.
People on long project trips have to do their business in caves. Most will carry out their #2 in what they call burrito's. Not sure how feasible it is to do that with #1. As for the rest of the discussion, I think what we have here is a result of a generation gap.I say this because when I see most of the NSS #s of those who oppose me I am assuming they are quite a bit younger than I. I am 48 and I can remember when newscasters smoked on the set, coaches and players in professional basketball smoked on the bench. Is it bad for you ? Yes it is. But it is not ingrained in me to go ape if I have to be around the smoke. It does not bother me. I prefer not to be around it but if I am I am not going to make an international incident out of it. We are going to have to agree to disagree. If a landowner said no smoking , his cave his choice. As long as it is legal and there are no rules of the landowner that states no smoking than if someone wants to smoke on my trips they can. I accept the right of others to say no smoking on their trips. If you feel strongly about it and do not want guys on your trip smoking than do not allow it, fine with me. Also NZ- Thanks for clearing up the "no politics" issue on this topic, I did not really think it was political. Just a difference in opinion on should people in the cave smoke.NZcaver wrote:Peeing and pooping in a cave is also a "legal activity" in most places. But just like second hand smoke, it's a health hazard to you if you have to come in contact with it. How do you feel about that?
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