Moderator: Tim White
jmo wrote:I think it’s time for me to buy a rack. I was hoping you could point me in the right direction as to which one you prefer. I’ll be using it with a PMI Max-Wear 11mm static line.
hank_moon wrote:Get a BMS micro rack - they are so much nicer to carry/handle than full size racks. Full size racks give no advantage for routine caving. Choice between long and short micro rack depends on your weight and the kind of caving you do. Generally speaking, the long model will be more versatile and easy to use.
If you are already skilled in rappelling (and there's not that much to it) and understand the limitations of your chosen device, there is no reason to go through a "training device" stage IMO.
Besides, the rack is a poor device to train/begin on. Better to learn rappelling with a straight friction device to learn the proper reflexes and importance of the brake hand. Too many cavers become over-dependent on the rack and then have difficulty adapting to situations where rack use may be problematic or impossible.
hank_moon wrote:Get a BMS micro rack - they are so much nicer to carry/handle than full size racks. Full size racks give no advantage for routine caving. Choice between long and short micro rack depends on your weight and the kind of caving you do. Generally speaking, the long model will be more versatile and easy to use.
Scott McCrea wrote:Micro Racks are great. But the margin for error is significantly smaller compared to a full size rack. I suggest getting comfortable with a full size rack first. Learn how to properly manage variable friction, then try out a Micro.
hank_moon wrote:If you are already skilled in rappelling (and there's not that much to it) and understand the limitations of your chosen device, there is no reason to go through a "training device" stage IMO.
Scott McCrea wrote:There are lots of skills in rappelling. Few take the time to learn them. Even fewer practice them.
Skipping training because someone may think they understand is foolish. But there are a lot of fools out there. I'm one of them. I skipped steps and regretted it because I had to go back later and try to unlearn bad habits that improper training caused. Save time in the long run--do it right the first time.
hank_moon wrote:Besides, the rack is a poor device to train/begin on. Better to learn rappelling with a straight friction device to learn the proper reflexes and importance of the brake hand. Too many cavers become over-dependent on the rack and then have difficulty adapting to situations where rack use may be problematic or impossible.
Scott McCrea wrote:Straight friction and variable friction devices require a different set of skills. Mixing techniques will and has caused problems and accidents. Cavers should learn how to properly use both types. I have seen lots of people using the techniques they learned on a Fig 8 (brake hand) while using a rack. It's possible to do, but a tremendous waste of a good device.
NZcaver wrote:JMO - WHERE will you be caving?
How exactly is the margin for error smaller compared to a full-size?
Scott McCrea wrote:With all due respect, Hank. I have to disagree with a couple things.
Scott McCrea wrote:Micro Racks are great. But the margin for error is significantly smaller compared to a full size rack. I suggest getting comfortable with a full size rack first. Learn how to properly manage variable friction, then try out a Micro.
Scott McCrea wrote:There are lots of skills in rappelling. Few take the time to learn them. Even fewer practice them.
Scott McCrea wrote:Golly! I have to completely disagree with that whole paragraph. Straight friction and variable friction devices require a different set of skills. Mixing techniques will and has caused problems and accidents. Cavers should learn how to properly use both types. I have seen lots of people using the techniques they learned on a Fig 8 (brake hand) while using a rack. It's possible to do, but a tremendous waste of a good device.
Scott McCrea wrote:If you get a Micro Rack, please take the time to figure it out completely, learn the proper/safe techniques, then practice them.
What will you do when the four bars and the hyper bar is not enough friction? What will you do when only four bars is too much friction? What will you do in a rescue situation? etc...You can do a lot of things with a Micro Rack, but you can do more with a full-sized, J-shaped, 6-bar rack.
If you're just learning how to drive...
That seems to be the key point when learning any descending (or ascending system) device. The ... "more you know" definitely applies here.NZcaver wrote: Get some training, and then practice, practice, practice.
jmo wrote:Wow, you all have some very good suggestions. I apprecaite it.
I'm caving in Colorado and the largest drops I'm doing is about a 100'.
mgmills wrote:For a beginner an important consideration is what the "trainer" is comfortable with.
Best case scenario is to be able to participate in a training session and try out multiple devices. I have successfully taught people to rappel with both types of racks - the standard and the micro.
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