Fungi or what?

Cave geology, biology, and similar topics. Also visit the NSS Biology Section, or the Cave Geology and Geography Section, or the NSS Paleontology Section.

Moderator: Moderators

Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Dec 24, 2011 3:57 pm

I am running across some interesting pink growths and liquid-on-a-string stuff in Florida dry caves and am wondering what these things might be. I have written it up in my blog, and am hoping that someone here might have a clue:

http://onrappel.blogspot.com/2011/12/un ... caves.html

Thanks!
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Tito the Turtle » Dec 24, 2011 4:23 pm

Is there a way you could check the pH of the droplets in question? That will help with the diagnosis. :)
Troglophile
Tito the Turtle
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2011 12:39 pm
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Dec 24, 2011 5:07 pm

Heh, that's funny. Firstly, the droplets are about 1 mm in diameter, and second, I don't have access to a pH meter.

Seriously, tho, I could get interested in the research, but don't have the equipment and am hoping someone already knows the scoop.
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Dwight Livingston » Dec 24, 2011 5:13 pm

Buford wrote:Heh, that's funny. Firstly, the droplets are about 1 mm in diameter, and second, I don't have access to a pH meter.

Seriously, tho, I could get interested in the research, but don't have the equipment and am hoping someone already knows the scoop.


http://www.amazon.com/Micro-Essential-L ... 735&sr=8-2
***************
Dwight Livingston
User avatar
Dwight Livingston
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:17 am
NSS #: 27411
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Baltimore Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Dec 24, 2011 6:13 pm

Wow! I don't believe it!!! I have looked and looked for cheap litmus paper, evidently in all the wrong places. Thanks, Dwight.

I just ordered some of that litmus paper. It only measures to an order of magnitude (whole pH units), but that's better than nothing. Plus, the paper strip might have to be blotted against several drops to get a single reading, but that's called 'averaging,' eh.

So, a circumneutral reading will indicate atmospheric condensate, a slightly basic value will indicate meteoric water seeping thru the limestone, and acidic or strongly basic values will indicate bio-fluids?
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Tito the Turtle » Dec 25, 2011 12:36 am

I'm preparing a response, I just need to double check my information to make sure I'm not misleading anyone.
Troglophile
Tito the Turtle
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2011 12:39 pm
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 25, 2011 12:48 am

I think they call those "snotties". If they are what I think, they are very rare. This finding I'm linking goes as far as to say they are only found 2 places in Colorado, one in Mexico and one place in Italy. Anyways, bravo! Sounds like a cool find.

http://www.steamboatmagazine.com/articles/257.php
Alex Hesler
Crawlaholics
Colorado Springs Deep Caving Team
User avatar
SuckinOnSodaStraws
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Aug 24, 2009 7:26 pm
Location: Crawlarado Springs, CO
Name: SLIM TROG [Alex Hesler]
NSS #: 64412
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Crawlaholics Anonymous
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 25, 2011 3:57 am

Wiki on "snotties":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snottite

Let me know what you find out. This is very interesting.
Alex Hesler
Crawlaholics
Colorado Springs Deep Caving Team
User avatar
SuckinOnSodaStraws
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Aug 24, 2009 7:26 pm
Location: Crawlarado Springs, CO
Name: SLIM TROG [Alex Hesler]
NSS #: 64412
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Crawlaholics Anonymous
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Dec 25, 2011 11:11 am

Al Krause and I, upon examining them, concluded they are not the snottites described in the scientific literature. Our examples have droplets on thin strings, and the droplets are capped by fine dendritic webs, whereas snottites are strings, strands, sheets, and webs of mucous-like material. That being said, I'll admit that I don't know what they ARE, and that they could indeed be another form of whatever composes snottites that is previously undescribed. Yes, that would indeed be interesting.

The Floridan Aquifer is a lens of freshwater lying atop mineralized waters. The latter are brines, formerly sea waters, as the Floridan Plateau was formed under shallow seas. Given its history, the depth of the brines, and their distance from the oxygenating atmosphere, it is not uncommon for sulphur to accumulate down there as H2S gas. Not infrequently, fractures allow small amounts of deep brines to rise into phreatic caves. I have seen small, imperceptibly-flowing brine seeps in a few underwater caves (Cold Sink cave and the Telford-Luraville Cave system, for example). They can be recognized by their colors, usually pale blue (methanogenic? magnesiogenic?) and yellow-brown (sulphurous?). Because they occur at the interface between sedimented floors and cave walls, they can also be recognized by the presence of thin grooves etched into the cave walls by sulphuric acid, tracing lines from the seeps upward toward the cave ceiling. Furthermore, in stagnant conditions, pale turquoise-blue water from the seep can pool up in small, shallow depressions around seep vents. (Interestingly, tiny crustaceans, possibly ostracods or copepods, feed immediately above these pools – I have tried to capture them with a slurp gun, but they are FAST and I couldn’t get the gun barrel anywhere near them).

This is not relatable to the current situation. The examples I am reporting are high on the walls and ceilings in caves having high air exchange fluxes, so presumably any acidic gases injected into the cave atmosphere would quickly be diluted and carried away. Also, there are no wall grooves leading to or away from them, instead they occur in relatively wide, horizontal bands.

North Peninsular Florida is subtropical and averages 54 inches of rainfall annually. The forest above is semi-evergreen and lush, with a detrital layer of leaves, twigs, etc appx 2 – 4 inches thick. Roots from the forest find numerous routes (fractures, solution pipes, and cave entrances) through the thin (< 10 ft thick) overlying bedrock. The cave where the pics were taken has abundant roots throughout the grotto where the unknown items occur. When water tables rise, a thin film of organic particulates gets pasted on the walls, along with inorganics and livestock manure leachates. Oh, did I fail to mention the cattle and water buffalo that graze overhead? Also, the cave harbors appx 10 bats each time I visit. These conditions are extremely favorable for fungi. Indeed, macroscopic fungal hyphae are almost everywhere in this cave, including dirt and rock floors, walls, and ceilings, and apparently on the suspect droplets. Thus, I am convinced they are bio-formations and are either fungal or a combination of bacterial and fungal.

But I could be wrong, and often am. The litmus paper should arrive, and I’ll be returning to finish the survey of that cave, by the middle of the coming week. Alan will also be here to obtain better photography of these materials. Stay tuned!
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 25, 2011 3:47 pm

:kewl:
Alex Hesler
Crawlaholics
Colorado Springs Deep Caving Team
User avatar
SuckinOnSodaStraws
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Aug 24, 2009 7:26 pm
Location: Crawlarado Springs, CO
Name: SLIM TROG [Alex Hesler]
NSS #: 64412
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Crawlaholics Anonymous
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Tito the Turtle » Jan 5, 2012 4:18 pm

I was unable to validate my sources/information but am curious, have you been able to test the pH yet? When I get back to my school I'll do some additional research, since I am interested in the answer!
Troglophile
Tito the Turtle
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2011 12:39 pm
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Jan 5, 2012 4:46 pm

TtT - I have gone back to that cave since my last post:
http://onrappel.blogspot.com/2011/12/ca ... urvey.html

However, that was before the litmus paper arrived, and there were too many other things to do in the cave at that time. I do aim to return, though, and will post my findings here when I have something to report. Thanks for your interest.

I should also note that I was contacted off-list by a Connecticut technician experienced with growing microbes and fungi. I will be collecting samples for him at that time, and would be willing to collect samples for anyone else wanting them. I will also note that one of our last-trip members contracted something in the cave. He thinks it is histo. The cave is bang-up with fungi at the present time, with a web of hyphae literally covering some parts of the cave, floor and walls, and parts of the ceiling. None of the other 9 cavers visiting that cave over the last 3 weeks have contracted histo or anything else, altho 2 of us (me included) got scratchy throats and suffered dry coughing while in the cave on 2 of those 3 occasions.

I'm not looking forward to returning due to the fungi and the difficulty of the cave, so am taking a break and surveying another cave not too far away this Sunday. We'll probably find more fungi in that cave, which I'll collect, plus collect samples from the surface of phototrophic stal. Are there any microbiologists out there possibly interested in visiting bio-active Florida caves this winter? We need you. The weather's nice.
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Jan 11, 2012 4:33 pm

We visited a nearby cave last Sunday Jan 8, primarily to add to its survey. While there, I collected microbiological samples to send to Peter Febbriorello and used litmus paper on some of the droplets in the cave. The litmus paper is accurate only to an order of magnitude (whole numbers), but I was surprised by the results. Testing clear droplets and yellowish droplets, I found both had pH values of 5:

http://onrappel.blogspot.com/2012/01/booty_10.html

The pH of the Floridan Aquifer is circumneutral, so clearly there is more here than just plain ground water. The droplets were hanging from the bottom of a foot-thick shelf appx 4 ft from where the shelf attaches to the cave wall. They were located within the twilight zone about 15 ft from the 20-ft pit entrance, and half-way between the surface and the floor of the entrance chamber. This part of Florida suffered drought this past year, with appx 41 inches of rainfall vs the long term annual average of 54 inches. Indeed, during normal rainfall years, the entrance chamber contains a pool of water appx 6 ft deep, but the water level in the cave is currently 3 ft below the cave floor.

Since epigean air temperatures are mostly below cave air temperatures at this time of the year, I do not believe the droplets are condensate. Because there has been so much drought, the droplets were under a shelf, and air circulation is thorough where the droplets were collected, I do not believe they represent groundwater seepage.

I am now awaiting any information that Peter can provide based on the samples that I sent him.
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 10:26 am

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pink%20slime%20swimmingpool&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aquaticcommunity.com%2Falgae-control%2Fpink.php&ei=1voOT-LlO5SDtgfjxLHxAQ&usg=AFQjCNFfNpF2xmlJU6VDbOC2g0rn-eJAJw Pink slime (a bacterial culture) occurs often in stagnant water which if correct you stated this is seen in the twilight zone and some standing water above. Although, I do see many strains of bacteria and algae that continue to grow in zero light with only CO2 available for a food source.

Also a low PH seems to also allow development. When buffered extremely high the outer shell that tends to protect the strains, is much easier to penetrate for destruction.
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  

Re: Fungi or what?

Postby Buford » Mar 23, 2012 11:40 am

Some preliminary results of our microbiological research in selected Archer Caves can be found at:

http://onrappel.blogspot.com/2012/03/ar ... ology.html

Work in the field and lab are ongoing. Stay tuned.
User avatar
Buford
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: FL in winter/spring & NC in summer/autumn
Name: Buford Pruitt
NSS #: 17920
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Florida Speleological Society + Flittermouse Grotto
  


Return to Speleology Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron