Petzl basic maillon size

Discuss vertical caving, equipment, & techniques. Also visit the NSS Vertical Section.

Moderator: Tim White

Petzl basic maillon size

Postby drown » Jan 31, 2012 3:03 pm

I've swapped the footlopp/top ascender in my frog system from a Petzl handled ascencion to a basic to reduce weight. I was using a maillon to connect my GGG webbing footloop to my handled ascender but this small maillon does not fit the small hole on my basic. Can someone recommend a maillon size that would fit the small "etrier" hole (according to Petzl" spec sheet" i can't figure what size this hole is and what size and shape of maillon would fit it and properly hold my foot loop?
drown
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 22, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Falls Church VA
NSS #: 44896
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby Rick Brinkman » Jan 31, 2012 3:34 pm

You could always drill it out a little bigger. I think that's what I did on my handled ascender.
Caves are rare and precious things. Cavers...even more so. Treat each accordingly.
NSS#42385(not current...give me a reason to change...(Sept 2010))
http://www.CoffeeCreekGear.com
User avatar
Rick Brinkman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Coffee Creek, MT
Name: mt_vertcaver
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Montana-Independent
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby cavemud2 » Jan 31, 2012 3:51 pm

Not real sure if i understand what you mean. But i use a 7mm oval on mine
Randy Gandy Club 2011 :bat sticker:
User avatar
cavemud2
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Parkersburg
NSS #: 62,925
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Parkersburg Area Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby NZcaver » Jan 31, 2012 4:40 pm

drown wrote:I've swapped the footlopp/top ascender in my frog system from a Petzl handled ascencion to a basic to reduce weight. I was using a maillon to connect my GGG webbing footloop to my handled ascender but this small maillon does not fit the small hole on my basic. Can someone recommend a maillon size that would fit the small "etrier" hole (according to Petzl" spec sheet" i can't figure what size this hole is and what size and shape of maillon would fit it and properly hold my foot loop?

Welcome to the forum.

As I recall the current model Basic has about a 6mm diameter secondary hole, which frankly isn't useful for much unless you ever need to tie a cord through it. You said you use a webbing footloop, so I suggest you pick up about a 5mm stainless delta (triangular) Maillon Rapide. You'll find a list of sizes and dimensions here.

The 5mm delta MR has a 7mm outside thread diameter, so it will not fit through the little hole in the Basic. However if you attach it through the main attachment hole, you can simply clip your cowstail carabiner into it. I do essentially the same thing, but with a 5mm stainless short oval MR and Spectra cord footloops. The system shown here illustrates the same type of connection using a handled upper ascender.
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6367
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby drown » Jan 31, 2012 4:54 pm

Thanks for the welcome and the quick response all.
drown
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 22, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Falls Church VA
NSS #: 44896
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby cavemud2 » Jan 31, 2012 6:22 pm

Ok i see what hole you are talking about now, guess ive always overlooked this hole.

Image
Randy Gandy Club 2011 :bat sticker:
User avatar
cavemud2
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Parkersburg
NSS #: 62,925
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Parkersburg Area Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 1, 2012 6:24 pm

Not sure what the intended purpose of that small hole is, but probably not for attaching a maillon. As NZ said, perhaps a small cord, but for what purpose is unclear. Trying to use a maillon in that small hole might result in binding and crossloading on the maillon, which could cause it to fail or put some stress on the Basic. I also wouldn't try boring it out for fear that it could weaken the primary attachment.
User avatar
Extremeophile
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Dec 7, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: Littleton, CO
Name: Derek Bristol
NSS #: 34941
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby Dwight Livingston » Feb 1, 2012 6:44 pm

cavemud2 wrote:Ok i see what hole you are talking about now, guess ive always overlooked this hole.

Image


If you rig it as shown above with your cowstail clipped to the link, then link is part of your safety system. In that case, it ought to be suitably large, probably larger than what is shown. Myself, I rig the footloop with a link smaller than shown and clip my cowstail directly to the Basic, next to the footloop link.

Dwight
***************
Dwight Livingston
User avatar
Dwight Livingston
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:17 am
NSS #: 27411
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Baltimore Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby NZcaver » Feb 1, 2012 7:30 pm

Dwight Livingston wrote:If you rig it as shown above with your cowstail clipped to the link, then link is part of your safety system. In that case, it ought to be suitably large, probably larger than what is shown.

Not necessarily. In that configuration you only need your Maillon Rapide to be comparable with the weakest point in the system, i.e. the ascender itself. When connected to a rope for normal use, the anticipated nominal minimum rope damage/failure force is between 4kN and 6.5kN. This is less than the MBS of a 4mm steel oval or 3mm(!) stainless oval MR. The example shown in cavemud2's photo should do just fine in that application.

Myself, I rig the footloop with a link smaller than shown and clip my cowstail directly to the Basic, next to the footloop link.

You're not the only one to do this, but it does limit your flexibility if you want to disconnect your long cowstail while leaving the footloop and ascender connected together.
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6367
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby cavemud2 » Feb 1, 2012 8:05 pm

I will have to look, not sure if thats a 7mm or 9mm i cant remember but its stainless which gives more strength as well. The picture that NZcaver had linked in the previous post is what i built my frog system from. I have always used a ropewalker and have only used this a few times. Im trying to convert myself over to the frog
Randy Gandy Club 2011 :bat sticker:
User avatar
cavemud2
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Parkersburg
NSS #: 62,925
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Parkersburg Area Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby Rick Brinkman » Feb 2, 2012 1:24 am

Here's how I do it. Honestly...I can't remember if I drilled out THIS ascender(MY old Petzl ascender) or if I drilled out the Kong.

I thought about going to the Basic, but I have too many uses for the handle. AND I like the (really) old thumb screw.


Image


Of course...I also use the On Rope 1 footloop. I personally like the single loop version. It's the only "adjust on the fly" foot loop(s) on the market.
Caves are rare and precious things. Cavers...even more so. Treat each accordingly.
NSS#42385(not current...give me a reason to change...(Sept 2010))
http://www.CoffeeCreekGear.com
User avatar
Rick Brinkman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Coffee Creek, MT
Name: mt_vertcaver
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Montana-Independent
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby NZcaver » Feb 2, 2012 1:59 am

Since we're all sharing, here's mine. :big grin:

Image

(From this previous topic on changeovers, cowstail carabiners and maillons.)
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6367
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby gdstorrick » Feb 2, 2012 6:00 pm

Post deleted.
Last edited by gdstorrick on Jul 7, 2012 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gdstorrick
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 3, 2009 11:06 am
Location: MI, USA
Name: Gary Storrick
NSS #: 12967
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Pittsburgh
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby Dwight Livingston » Feb 2, 2012 7:40 pm

NZcaver wrote:
Dwight Livingston wrote:If you rig it as shown above with your cowstail clipped to the link, then link is part of your safety system. In that case, it ought to be suitably large, probably larger than what is shown.

Not necessarily. In that configuration you only need your Maillon Rapide to be comparable with the weakest point in the system, i.e. the ascender itself. When connected to a rope for normal use, the anticipated nominal minimum rope damage/failure force is between 4kN and 6.5kN. This is less than the MBS of a 4mm steel oval or 3mm(!) stainless oval MR. The example shown in cavemud2's photo should do just fine in that application.


Sure. That's why I didn't give sizes and said "probably". I'd add, though, the link has to stand up to much abuse in that location. I wouldn't shave it too close.

Myself, I rig the footloop with a link smaller than shown and clip my cowstail directly to the Basic, next to the footloop link.

You're not the only one to do this, but it does limit your flexibility if you want to disconnect your long cowstail while leaving the footloop and ascender connected together.


I clip the cowstail biner in next to the footloop link, so I can disconnect.

Very interesting to see all these rigs.
***************
Dwight Livingston
User avatar
Dwight Livingston
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:17 am
NSS #: 27411
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Baltimore Grotto
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby drown » Feb 2, 2012 9:12 pm

For what it's worth here is how Petzl describes this small hole.
Image

With my handled ascender I could use a maillon in the small hole to permanently attach my footloop, and a biner for my cowstail in the large hole. I can no longer use this setup on the basic unless I find a maillon of a suitable size that is also strong enough. Not sure if that exists.

I guess I'm also confused about "racking" or attaching the basic and footloop to my harness if I need to use both branches of my cowstail. I guess that's were a spare biner comes in handy. But it does add to the clutter.

For those who are clipping both into the large hole, is there enough room for a maillon and biner and still remain flexible enough.
drown
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 22, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Falls Church VA
NSS #: 44896
  

Next

Return to On Rope!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron