Frog Self Start

[Cody JW]

Most of us who use the frog know that you can self start by pinning the rope between the heels of your boots as you step up. It works very well for me, sometimes I can put it between my boots anywhere. My question is has anyone thought of a way to keep the rope close to your boot ? I will step up and then the rope gets behind my boot then I have to find it again, witch takes time. I had thought of making some kind of webbing loop with maybe a ring or something to run the rope through and attach this loop around the ankle somewhere ?? Has anyone had an issue with this or has thought of any way to keep the rope close to your boot, at least at the start of the climb to self start ??

[graveleye]

I almost always have to pull the rope down from the croll with my hand to get started if my boots won't grab the rope enough.
Step up, pull again. Usually only takes a time or two and the weight of the rope below starts helping pull it through.

[gdstorrick]

Post deleted.

[Cody JW]

I use two Petzl foot pros. I can pin the rope between my feet during the up step but when I get upright the rope comes out from between my feet then I have to find it again, kind of a pain. Just trying to figure out a way to keep it close to my boot. I used to climb with one larger one but for me using two I like better. Still had the same issue with one.

[fireman1904]

I use a Petzl Pantin. There are other brands of the same thing. I am not sure if this would work in the way you are wanting but it does keep the rope by your foot and helps pull the rope through the croll. It also helps keep you more upright when climbing. I honestly hate frogging without it. And its really easy to get off the rope when you are in a situation where you don't want or need it. Again I don't know if this helps but it is one option.

[chh]

I'm not familiar with the type of footloops you use, but you are keeping the rope in front of your footloops right? Not behind and trying to pinch with your heels?

[chh]

Ok, just looked up the footpro. I can see how that might get away from you as the point at which the foot loops seperate is way up at the ascender. Why not use a piece of cord with a double loop knot for your two feet? If the knot is down closer to your ankles then the rope won't have the tendancy to slip between your legs as much.

[Cody JW]

Ok, just looked up the footpro. I can see how that might get away from you as the point at which the foot loops seperate is way up at the ascender. Why not use a piece of cord with a double loop knot for your two feet? If the knot is down closer to your ankles then the rope won't have the tendancy to slip between your legs as much.

Never thought of that , I will try that. Sounds like an easy solution. I do want to try a Pantin also, I know that would eliminate the problem. Right now I only use the frog for short stuff and want to keep the system simple with less parts. Thanks for the reply's , it should help.

[paul]

Ok, just looked up the footpro. I can see how that might get away from you as the point at which the foot loops seperate is way up at the ascender. Why not use a piece of cord with a double loop knot for your two feet? If the knot is down closer to your ankles then the rope won't have the tendancy to slip between your legs as much.

Never thought of that , I will try that. Sounds like an easy solution. I do want to try a Pantin also, I know that would eliminate the problem. Right now I only use the frog for short stuff and want to keep the system simple with less parts. Thanks for the reply's , it should help.

You'll not regeret getting a Pantin! I and others I cave with use one all the time when prusiking (using a Frog setup, which is practically universal here in the UK) even for small pitches simply because they pull the rope through the Croll so well.

Another consideration is to use a single larger loop which can take both your feet together, just big enough to fit them both comfortably. You still have the option of using just one foot in the loop with the Pantin on the other (when you do get one).

By placing the rope between your feet in front of the loop, it will get pulled through the Croll almost without thinking about your feet positions just because of the way they move as you prusik (except for the first few feet when there isn't enough wieght of rope to pull itself through between your feet). You just have to separate your feet slightly as you raise your upper descender - they will naturally trap the rope between when you stand up. Once you have prusiked up the rope enough and the weight of the rope is enough to pull through the Croll, you can just flick the rope from between your feet.

[Cody JW]

I understand what you guys are saying about using one loop for your feet. The reason I prefer two is that when you get to the top and need to spread your feet out sometimes to balance yourself around the lip it is easier to do that with two loops. I know you can kick out one foot and do the same. My problem is that I do not have any cartaledge left in my knee caps because of arthritis and it is tuff for me to frog with one foot with a weight of 220 lbs. I like being able to use both feet at all times and also have the ability to spread my feet for balance at the lip. With that in mind the solution for me is to find a way to keep the rope near my boot.

[cave newbie]

Anybody know of a video online with a demonstration of the pantin added to the frog system?

[Chads93GT]

Try youtube

[Chads93GT]

I say that because ive always found those kinds of videos on youtube with a simple word search, ive simply never needed to search for that particular video

[hammmike]

We just usually do an inline fig 8 near the bottom of the rope and clip a heavy piece of gear onto it.....

[mgmills]

We just usually do an inline fig 8 near the bottom of the rope and clip a heavy piece of gear onto it.....

Just be sure the last person to climb out unties the knot and brings up the gear. If not, it can hang up when you start to haul the rope out of the pit. May not be a problem in some open air pits but many places I've visited it could be a major problem.