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Caver John wrote:mooreshire wrote:The new grigri(2) is pretty much just as awkward for rappel as the original. The only real modification/upgrade was to reduce weight and profile slightly and make the groove narrower to accommodate for super thin ropes. I bring mine everywhere but into caves.
I don't really like the Yo-Yo (or "R.A.D.S." as Petzl wants it called) ascending system either - my one arm gets tired from pulling rope through the grigri, even with the 2:1 via a mini-pulley under the upper ascender. I have a buddy who doesn't seem to mind and appreciates not having to changeover, but he mainly uses the system for big wall climbs and recreational tree climbing.
Have you even done the slightest reading on the gg2? Because I've read that it is much better for rappelling due to a redesigned cam. Its not just the size and weight that has changed.
Anyway, my purpose for starting this thread was to see if anyone has used the new one for rapping.... So.... Anyone?
harrym wrote:So it seems that no one has actually used the Grigri in a caving environment. So all we have is speculation.
Seems that the AMGA is teaching that the Grigri can be used as one's primary belaying, ascending and rappelling device.
My friend demonstrated the Grigri for me on a cliff at the New River Gorge. He loved how smooth the device worked on rappel. I must say that I was impressed with the ease of change-over from ascending to rapping. He simply removed the upper ascender and - poof! - "ON RAPPEL!"
But the ascending technique left a lot to be desired. Kinda like the Frog sit-stand but you have to manually pull the rope through the device with every stand-up motion. I ran the rope through a 'biner on the upper cam (to function kinda like a pulley) so that I could pull down on the rope as I stood up, thereby pulling the rope through the Grigri. Clumsy at best.
NZcaver wrote:harrym wrote:So it seems that no one has actually used the Grigri in a caving environment. So all we have is speculation.
I wouldn't say "no one." I used my GriGri in a cave - once.Seems that the AMGA is teaching that the Grigri can be used as one's primary belaying, ascending and rappelling device.
My friend demonstrated the Grigri for me on a cliff at the New River Gorge. He loved how smooth the device worked on rappel. I must say that I was impressed with the ease of change-over from ascending to rapping. He simply removed the upper ascender and - poof! - "ON RAPPEL!"
But the ascending technique left a lot to be desired. Kinda like the Frog sit-stand but you have to manually pull the rope through the device with every stand-up motion. I ran the rope through a 'biner on the upper cam (to function kinda like a pulley) so that I could pull down on the rope as I stood up, thereby pulling the rope through the Grigri. Clumsy at best.
This technique is known as RADS (Rappel and Descent System), and usually incorporates a real pulley on the upper ascender. We had a level 1 student use this system at last year's NCRC national, and he struggled a little with his entry testing requirements before finally passing. It's great that the AMGA likes it, but I think your "clumsy" description is reasonably apt in relation to caving use.
FYI, see previous topic GriGri in a Frog system. More info about RADS can be found on the canyoneering forum.
Extremeophile wrote:Having just completed NCRC Level 1 training, I learned and practiced the tandem triple wrap Prusik belay (T3WP Belay), and this is commonly paired with a Prusik-minding pulley for progress capture on a haul, and a radium load releasing hitch (RLRH) to allow the rope to be unweighted if the belay has to hold a load. This belay system is the only one they endorse for a rescue load (more than one person), and is even more complicated to tie properly than it is to spell. I kept thinking that a Grigri would replace this whole system - belay a haul, belay a lower, release a weighted rope, and pass the whistle test. It could be rigged with much less equipment and in a small fraction of the time with far less opportunity for error. Is there a reason not to use this that I'm missing? I don't accept the argument that it's a specialized piece of equipment... 30' of 8mm cord for the RLRH, Prusik knots and a Prusik-minding pulley are also specialized equipment.
paul wrote:The Gri-Gri is usable as a belay device for caving ropes (used by my local Cave Rescue organisation) however, care must be taken to always hold the controlling rope until safely locked-off as it may not autolock on a sudden load and also it releases suddenly when depressing the handle after autolocking. Care must be taken to prevent the autolocking being released unintentionally by allowing the device to press against any surface.
bradyfl wrote:I have used a used a petzl stop, a rack, and various 8's as well as a gri gri and a gri gri 2. I really like the gri gri 2 and prefer it. I guess it's all about what you are comfortable with and personal preference. There is more than one way to skin a cat and the same goes for descending
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