Rack users: Attachment

[Patrick Wilson]

**CLARIFICATION**
There has been a little bit of confusion as to the choices in the poll. The "carabiner" and "screwlink" options represent an extra link in the chain, (e.g. a carabiner between your half-round, omni, delta, etc and the rack), whereas "directly" indicates a direct connection, (no extra link) between the half-round, omni, delta, etc and the rack.

Original post:
I know that the pros and cons of one method against another have been discussed here before, but I'm rather curious as to what the poll numbers will reveal the consensus to be.

[Marduke]

Both screwlink and biner, depending. I like using a screwlink because it can't really be gate loaded, but I have to use a biner on my 24" so I can take it off easily and hang to the side while climbing.

But I generally prefer a screwlink for added safety.

[donniecs]

Usually directly since it removes a link from the chain making things simpler. Plus it orientates the rack 90 degrees to the left or right so the rope actually feeds through the rack smoother. Sometimes I'll use a biner to accommodate ease of rack removal though.

[Chads93GT]

Depends what rack frame you have as to how its oriented ;) Personally I use a 7mm screw link so its easy to swing to the side and clip on for traversing or hanging out at the bottom or top of the drop. I back it up with the short end of my cows tail. Ive seen people use 2 biners and 2 screw links. Dont like biners as the gates can be cross loaded and the pins broken, and teh quick release if the screw link comes undone. bla bla bla

[self-deleted_user]

I am confused...how can you load the gate on a 'biner with the rack?? gate is on the long side..the rack and connection to the halfround would be on each shortside, yes? (not sure how else to describe it....but i'm not seeing how the gate could get loaded...) I have some spare screwlinks...maybe I should switch? what size screwlink should be used?

[Chads93GT]

The gate can get loaded because "shit happens". Thats how. during a rebelay, during a changeover. crossing a nasty lip, simply not paying attention when you put your weight on the rack at the top of the drop. Just because a biner is designed to carry the load across the spine, and sit naturally on the top and bottom, doesnt mean it cant get turned sideways and have the gate loaded instead.

However, a rack can get positioned in such situations if you arent paying attention that the rack will act as a lever/fulcrum and pry the gate of the biner open. Locked or not. Then of course, there is always the quick disconnect of the rack and biner when the screw gate accidentally comes undone and you fall to your death.

[DeanWiseman]

Only beef with screw links is that, while less prone to gate loading, my experience has been that they are more prone to being unable to remove without a wrench. It's not really a "beef," rather just an observation... and it means another piece of gear in the bag.

-Dean

[Carl Amundson]

The gate can get loaded because "shit happens". Thats how. during a rebelay, during a changeover. crossing a nasty lip, simply not paying attention when you put your weight on the rack at the top of the drop. Just because a biner is designed to carry the load across the spine, and sit naturally on the top and bottom, doesnt mean it cant get turned sideways and have the gate loaded instead.

However, a rack can get positioned in such situations if you arent paying attention that the rack will act as a lever/fulcrum and pry the gate of the biner open. Locked or not. Then of course, there is always the quick disconnect of the rack and biner when the screw gate accidentally comes undone and you fall to your death.

I also use a quick link for a number of reasons.
First off, it's shorter and I like to keep my rack close.
Secondly the above scenario does happen.
Here is a graphic illustration of what can happen. It is a corner-case, but I have seen this happen during a practice session on a crappy lip.


"The above photos illustrate how the gate of a carabiner, which has unscrewed itself back
into the open position, can become forced open due to the motions of the bottom of a rack
pushing against it. Such a situation can, and has, occurred when a caver stands up on a
ledge in order to disconnect the small cowtail (i.e. safety) from the hanger supporting the
rope onto which he has just threaded the rack. Needless to say, this can be a FATAL mistake."

[Scott McCrea]

A while back we talked about rack attachments. Lots of good info there.

Thanks for doing the poll. Nice to see some actual numbers.

[Patrick Wilson]

A while back we talked about rack attachments. Lots of good info there.

Thanks for doing the poll. Nice to see some actual numbers.

That was my thinking, with all the talk we've had about "SAD" on carabiners and needing a wrench for the screwlink, it would be nice to see the hard numbers on what everyone uses.

[Amazingracer]

I use two Petzl OKs opposite and opposed for my rack. I like quicklinks but as Dean said they can sometimes require a wrench to open and remove. So double carabiners for me and it prevents the issue Carl pointed out.

I do use a quicklink for my microrack though and it takes a lot of force to remove at the moment so it just stays on my harness while climbing :-(

[chh]

On the rare occassion I use a rack it's normally a biner because I can't stand having a 6 bar just hanging off the front of my harness.
On even rarer occassions I've used a 90 degree locking clevis for my rack. It's smaller than both biner and screwlink, turns the rack the right way, and can be removed without a wrench. However, the clevis, like most, is two pieces. And they are small and I worry about dropping them, so I've only used it on a big, in cave drop, where that is the only pitch I'm really going to want the variability of the rack. And I keep a biner around just in case. Needless to say the opportunities to use said clevis have been very few. I used it in Ellison's and then I wanted to use it in Fern, but forgot the clevis and my pantin, so I just used a biner. Use it frequently at work though, but it is attached or unattached on the ground and then placed back in the truck. No changing it at height, it stays on the saddle. Still, it's pretty cool...

[trogman]

On the rare occassion I use a rack it's normally a biner because I can't stand having a 6 bar just hanging off the front of my harness.
On even rarer occassions I've used a 90 degree locking clevis for my rack. It's smaller than both biner and screwlink, turns the rack the right way, and can be removed without a wrench. However, the clevis, like most, is two pieces. And they are small and I worry about dropping them, so I've only used it on a big, in cave drop, where that is the only pitch I'm really going to want the variability of the rack. And I keep a biner around just in case. Needless to say the opportunities to use said clevis have been very few. I used it in Ellison's and then I wanted to use it in Fern, but forgot the clevis and my pantin, so I just used a biner. Use it frequently at work though, but it is attached or unattached on the ground and then placed back in the truck. No changing it at height, it stays on the saddle. Still, it's pretty cool...

At the risk of sounding like an idiot...What's a "clevis"?

Trogman

[Chads93GT]

ITs a thing farmers use to hook trailers up to big trucks, or choker chains for hauling logs, etc. google clevice. It looks like a horse shoe with a pin going through the open end to close it off. A coter pin then goes through a hole in the end of the pin to keep it from falling out, OR..........the pin its self is a bolt that you put a nut on the end to keep it from falling out. you can find small clevices near the chain links, screw links, etc at home depot etc.

[self-deleted_user]

Not sure if I should ask here or bump the other thread...but actually I think it was Chad who mentioned oiling carabiners?? Where are you doing that and why and what exactly do you use? I keep all my gear clean and all but should this oiling thing be something I regularly do as well?

Also I read through the entirty of the other topic linked and still do not see any mention of *which* mallions to use for rack attachment just "use the right one and right size"...uh that is so helpful. All this talk has made me think to change my own (I have a 'biner right now, which come to think of it in practice I did almost load the gate by accident as the screw-bit of the 'biner got caught up on the rack frame so now it's something I always check of habit but why not be safer to start with?) but I have yet to see any mention of *what* I should get. I have a few extra mallions (oval, can't remember the size) so I might even have one already for all I know. It wouldn't bother me to have the rack harder to take off of the halfround, I just clip it to the side or I've taken everything off, or just let it hang for short stints (haaa there is a benefit to being a girl!)