Teresa wrote: Deer are getting CWD. Hunting is still permitted on state and federal lands where it has been. Deer hunters are asked to report any sick deer they see, but they are not being asked to become cervid biologists.
and cavers who help agencies with mapping/monitoring/inventory aren't asked to become geographers or biologists either. And in WIsconsin's CWD zones, hunting still occurs- but the rules have very much changed. This, from a member of a family with a bunch of land in a CWD Zone, with a CWD positive deer that was harvested this winter.
And I don't know a soul in Wisconsin- on the agency or hunter side- who thinks the CWD issue was addressed properly. Nevermind that the prion that causes CWD persists in soils for long periods(unlike Gd), and the only thing the WIDNR asks hunters to 'decon' is their butchering equipment.
Boaters are bombarded with public information on not spreading zebra mussels, and how to clean their boats. Campers are being assaulted with ads and even billboard telling them not to move any firewood to prevent emerald ashborer transfer. Boating and camping are still big bucks industries being encouraged as outdoor recreation. Neither boaters nor campers are expected to have any special expertise.
I'd agree that most agencies have screwed the pooch as it relates to getting the "Cave Clean" message to the user groups they worry about- they are, with a few notable exceptions, not worried about the organzied caving community.
I know several folks- not scientists- who are helping with ash borer surveys- not rocket science, no special expertise needed. And it pays good money!
Cleanup and restoration have been activities I've been involved in for over 15 years. Anyone can help clean up a cave. This would seem to be a prime time to do so.
While I appreciate the value of cave cleanups and restoration, why would this be a prime time to do so? If the cave is closed, and the closure is effective- then there no impact. Of course, I understand it means that calcite deposition could cover up paint, mud, etc., and make future restoration work difficult or impossible.
In a holistic sense- does it help the cave as an ecosystem? I value restoration work- but it is aesthetic.
Caving is the only one where the participants are expected to pay for the privilege...to use their own time, resources, money, gas, etc., to collect information which the regulatory agency is then GIVEN.
Yes. What the hell is wrong with that? I beleive the correct term is altruism- and is generally considered to be a positive human trait I must also point out that your organized volunteer activities on public lands are entirely tax deductible.
And when you do, for many years, your contributions are forgotten and your opinion no longer valued.
My personal experience is that public agencies are doing an excellent job in retaining data. As to my "contributions"... my opinion should be valued only if it is valid, based on facts, evidence, and logic. Any imagined "seniority"- how long I've owned a helmet with a light mounted upon it, or how many years I've walked through a particular cave, is just that- imagination. No guarantee of any causal connection to the validity of any opinion. Opinions, sphincters,... we all have one.
To me, this renders cavers 2nd class citizens. This is what angers me. WHY?
That's your opinion. I don't feel like a second class citizen- I see hastily and poorly implemented disease management.
Instead of having to go through some group effort, like the CRF, or NSS or a grotto, responsible individuals should be permitted. You don't have to be a member of the NRA to get a hunting permit, or the Izzak Walton League one for fishing. This needs to be an individual thing....
And how would 'responsible' be defined? By individuals? Groups? Committees? Public agencies? Through an MOU? Imagine THAT Cavechat discussion thread ;-)
I disagree with John Lovaas about this being a wildlife emergency. It is no more an emergency than any of the other natural resource issues above. It just happens to be the one we are focused on.
It is a 'wildlife emergency'- like the other 'wildlife emergencies' you mentioned. I hope that I've made it clear that I am in no way happy with how this 'wildlife emergency' has been managed.
As someone with a geologic background, I never have truly understood why little furry things trump rocks and water. I just don't have those genes. It's just a matter of one's preferences.
Perhaps it is ecologic myopia. The Wisconsin DNR sees caves as nothing more than places where bats live, or as bat-free playhouses for cavers and don't grasp why people would care about invertebrates in the cave, if the cave were to be sealed so that no creature the size of a bat(or larger) would be excluded. I think the term DNR biologist David Redell used at the recent Arkansas WNS meeting was 'know-nothings'.
Caves aren't just rocks and water, aren't just furry things- they are ecosystems. And learning more about those ecosystems- and helping out where we can- might, on the most minimum and selfish of levels, cause our brains to generate more neurons. And we can all benefit from a few more neurons. Learning something new is good for our brains, and cooperating with others, some might argue, is beneficial to all.
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