Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Caver John » Jun 22, 2011 10:16 am

I probably wouldnt try using the gg2 for in cave because of the grit factor.

Anyone know more about the recall? Does it have anything to do with the tail end of the rope sliding off the lip?

I'm willing to bet thTs the reason
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Caver John » Jun 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Nevermind, recall is because of the handle failing to lock if pulled too hard.

I bet with the propped orientation and maybe running the tail back through a carabiner attached to the harness would keep the tail from sliding off the lip. This really should've been thought of though. I'm really surprised atpetzls oversight.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Ch33s3n1p » Jun 23, 2011 12:57 am

I normally wouldn't use my Grigri for rappelling, but this thread made me want to try it. I rappelled 90' on a clean, dry 11mm PMI Max Wear and 70' on a wet, slightly dirty 11mm Bluewater II. The original Grigri is terrible for rappelling! It's jerky and awkward. The beginning of the rappel was the worst, probably because of the rope weight. If the new Grigri is anything like my old one I don't recommend it for rappelling, especially in a cave.

The only good thing I can say about the (old) Grigri is that all the friction surfaces are stainless steal.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby NZcaver » Jun 23, 2011 1:20 am

Ah-ha! Clearly the GriGri is a belay device, not a rappel device. No further explanation necessary. :goodjob: :tonguecheek:
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby mooreshire » Jun 23, 2011 1:26 am

The new grigri(2) is pretty much just as awkward for rappel as the original. The only real modification/upgrade was to reduce weight and profile slightly and make the groove narrower to accommodate for super thin ropes. I bring mine everywhere but into caves.

I don't really like the Yo-Yo (or "R.A.D.S." as Petzl wants it called) ascending system either - my one arm gets tired from pulling rope through the grigri, even with the 2:1 via a mini-pulley under the upper ascender. I have a buddy who doesn't seem to mind and appreciates not having to changeover, but he mainly uses the system for big wall climbs and recreational tree climbing.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby chh » Jun 23, 2011 9:30 am

mooreshire wrote:Rappelling with two people and all their gear (a.k.a. following a pickoff) on the GriGri2 is a slightly frightening experience. I love the little guy, but if there's a better tool for a specific job I say use it. The only thing I've ever used the grigri2 for underground was tensioning a tyrolean.


I'm kind of surprised you were able to do this at all. Did you incorporate braking carabiners? Even so I imagine depressing the lever was kind of difficult. I think I would have avoided the gri-gri alltogether and used a "monster munter" or "double munter" whatever you want to call it if no other rappelling devices were available. Follow it with a french wrap if one-handed stopping is necessary. More time to set up, certainly, but also more controll. Honestly I've never even thought about doing a pickoff with a Gri-gri. Now I kind of want to try it just to see how crappy it would be. I'm stubborn that way :roll:
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Caver John » Jun 23, 2011 4:19 pm

mooreshire wrote:The new grigri(2) is pretty much just as awkward for rappel as the original. The only real modification/upgrade was to reduce weight and profile slightly and make the groove narrower to accommodate for super thin ropes. I bring mine everywhere but into caves.

I don't really like the Yo-Yo (or "R.A.D.S." as Petzl wants it called) ascending system either - my one arm gets tired from pulling rope through the grigri, even with the 2:1 via a mini-pulley under the upper ascender. I have a buddy who doesn't seem to mind and appreciates not having to changeover, but he mainly uses the system for big wall climbs and recreational tree climbing.



Have you even done the slightest reading on the gg2? Because I've read that it is much better for rappelling due to a redesigned cam. Its not just the size and weight that has changed.

Anyway, my purpose for starting this thread was to see if anyone has used the new one for rapping.... So.... Anyone?
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby paul » Jun 24, 2011 6:22 am

It may be worth having a look at Petzl's Information leaflet on the GriGri 2.

Nowhere does it mention using the GriGri 2 for abseiling (rapelling). It is a belay device and intended for rock climbing. On major drawback of using the GriGri2 for abseiling si that it must be removed from the rope in order to attach the rope.

There are plenty of choices of devices to use for caving so why bother with a device which is not suitable?
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jun 24, 2011 11:10 am

paul wrote:There are plenty of choices of devices to use for caving so why bother with a device which is not suitable?


Good question Paul. If you find out the answer, please let me know. It may help to explain why so many people here in Utah shun racks and bobbins and instead want to use ATC's, figure eights, Totems, Piranas, etc for caving!!!
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby John Lovaas » Jun 24, 2011 11:35 am

I see a canyoneering gear dealer is recommending it for rappelling-

http://www.canyonsandcrags.com/canyonee ... -grigri-2/

"...it gives a great feeling of control when lowering a partner or rappelling...."

Nothing like marketing a tool for a purpose for which it was neither designed or intended. But- it has been writ upon the Interwebs, therefore it must be true...
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Chads93GT » Jun 24, 2011 11:40 am

Anonymous_Coward wrote:
paul wrote:There are plenty of choices of devices to use for caving so why bother with a device which is not suitable?


Good question Paul. If you find out the answer, please let me know. It may help to explain why so many people here in Utah shun racks and bobbins and instead want to use ATC's, figure eights, Totems, Piranas, etc for caving!!!


why use anything but a rack if you already have a rack/mini rack/stop for rappelling. Id rather drive a cadillac than a pinto.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Extremeophile » Jun 24, 2011 5:23 pm

John Lovaas wrote:Nothing like marketing a tool for a purpose for which it was neither designed or intended. But- it has been writ upon the Interwebs, therefore it must be true...

This is from Petzl's website:
"The new progressive descent control system in the GRIGRI 2 is specially designed to offer smooth, even lowering action - there's a larger 'sweet spot' when lowering a climber or rappelling."
I think folks are making a lot of assumptions by declaring that it is not designed for or suitable for rappelling. Petzl's technical documentation can sometimes be very extensive and detailed and other times it may have huge omissions. I agree with the near-consensus that there are better devices out there for underground use.

I have done rock climbs where I brought a Grigri for belay use and an ATC for rappelling, because I often prefer rappelling on 2 strands and don't like the rap control with the Grigri (at least the original).

As far as the car analogy... rappelling on a 6-bar rack is like driving a big diesel truck - heavy, clunky, overdesigned and difficult to change directions. Rappelling on a Simple is like driving an Audi TT - light, efficient, easy to control.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby MUD » Jun 24, 2011 6:19 pm

Extremeophile wrote:As far as the car analogy... rappelling on a 6-bar rack is like driving a big diesel truck - heavy, clunky, overdesigned and difficult to change directions. Rappelling on a Simple is like driving an Audi TT - light, efficient, easy to control.

:clap: I like that analogy Derek and I agree!
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby John Lovaas » Jun 24, 2011 6:42 pm

This is from Petzl's website:
"The new progressive descent control system in the GRIGRI 2 is specially designed to offer smooth, even lowering action - there's a larger 'sweet spot' when lowering a climber or rappelling."
I think folks are making a lot of assumptions by declaring that it is not designed for or suitable for rappelling. Petzl's technical documentation can sometimes be very extensive and detailed and other times it may have huge omissions. I agree with the near-consensus that there are better devices out there for underground use.

I have done rock climbs where I brought a Grigri for belay use and an ATC for rappelling, because I often prefer rappelling on 2 strands and don't like the rap control with the Grigri (at least the original).



Damn, Derek- consider me spanked.

I've always held up Petzl as a example of thorough technical documentation- I haven't come across this before. I could play devil's advocate and suggest that Petzl engineers and Petzl marketing/sales have different ideas about how the device should be employed- but I doubt that very much. In my own varied and sundry careers, I've been aware of the myriad things Sales promises that Engineering can't- or doesn't want to- deliver on.

I saw there are two Petzl folks registered for Convention- maybe I'll see their name tags and ask about it.

And another thumbs up for the Simple. I recently had the opportunity to do Valhalla, and in deference to my host, I brought my stainless SMC rack. While the rack did what it was supposed to do, when I bottomed, I wished I had given my Simple a chance.

A bit like a friend of mine who is relocating to Nepal for a USAID position. As there are huge vehicle import hassles in Nepal, he ordered a made in India 4WD SUV from a Kathmandu dealer- and the current chain of correspondence(including photos) would seem to indicate that a tractor is awaiting his arrival in Nepal. A tractor would be an OK way to get around- but the SUV would be better.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby NZcaver » Jun 25, 2011 3:19 am

Cavemud wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:As far as the car analogy... rappelling on a 6-bar rack is like driving a big diesel truck - heavy, clunky, overdesigned and difficult to change directions. Rappelling on a Simple is like driving an Audi TT - light, efficient, easy to control.

:clap: I like that analogy Derek and I agree!

:rofl: Brilliant! That's bound to raise a few hackles... and probably some heckles too. :boxing: :tonguecheek:
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