Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

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Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Caver John » Jun 16, 2011 1:12 pm

Hello all,

I'm wondering if anyone has used the new gri gri yet for rappelling. It's supposed to have much better ccontrol and feel with a wider range of rope diameters. Does anyone use this instead of a rack per say?

I currently use a petzl (reverso)? I think thats what it's called. It's a basket with v grooves and it works well but I'm looking for something with a emergency stop feature. I really like the gr gri for belaying.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Phil Winkler » Jun 16, 2011 2:04 pm

It doesn't appear from the description that it is designed for rappelling, just belaying.

There are a number of other variable friction devices much more suitable I think.

Do you do any caving and rappelling in caves?
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jun 16, 2011 2:43 pm

Hmmm, is there really any difference between a rappel device and a belay device? I've always considered them to be the same thing. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think any rappel device could conceivably be used to belay and vice versa. Some are better for one task or the other, but you are basically sliding rope through a device at a controlled rate of speed with either one.

I have never used a gri gri at all but I know several cavers that use them as their rappel device and seem to really like it. I do think they are using the older one though. The gri gri 2 is pretty new if I remember right.

Phil, I think that if Caver John does not do any caving or rappelling in caves then he has chosen a very strange name.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Extremeophile » Jun 16, 2011 4:58 pm

Hmmm... I've never seen anyone use a Gri Gri in a caving situation. I've rappelled on the original Gri Gri many times, but I don't really like it for that purpose. The times I've used it were related to rock climbing, where I was self-belaying during a lead and then using the autostop function to clean gear on the way back down. It is definitely difficult to control the friction while descending... it goes from fully stopped to virtually no friction with very little movement of the lever. I also have the Gri Gri 2, and like it for belaying, but haven't used it to rappel yet. Based on the design and the way it feels while belaying I suspect it will behave much the same while rappelling as the original.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Caver John » Jun 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Thanks for the input. I've never used one for rappelling either, but like it for belay. The write up on the new one mentioned much better control during descent, this is what interested me. Maybe after you try ou yOur new one for rappelling you can give us a report on here.

Thanks
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby JIBTEXHNKA » Jun 19, 2011 5:22 am

Extremeophile wrote: It is definitely difficult to control the friction while descending... it goes from fully stopped to virtually no friction with very little movement of the lever. .


Easiest way to do it is to hold the lever all the way open with your left hand and then control the rope with your right like you would with an ATC or figure 8. I wouldn't use the level to control your descent... only to stop halfway down.

But either way, rapelling on a Gri-Gri isn't a lot of fun. Although in a dry cave (not super muddy) I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine, and would make changeovers super easy as long as you were careful and made sure it was really locked off.

Edit: I've never used the Gri-Gri 2, so it could be different!
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby LukeM » Jun 20, 2011 11:05 am

FYI: Petzl has issued a recall on some GRIGRI 2's.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Extremeophile » Jun 20, 2011 7:06 pm

LukeM wrote:FYI: Petzl has issued a recall on some GRIGRI 2's.

Looks like mine is included in the recall. Thanks for bringing that to my attention Luke.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Amazingracer » Jun 21, 2011 11:03 am

My fear about using a Gri-Gri in cave would be all the muck and mire getting caught up in the mechanism itself. I dont think it would make it unsafe, probably just make it a PITA to use.

I definitely love using them above ground for belaying (I use a reverso like you as well for belaying), as far as rappelling I tend to stray towards the actual rappel devices (Racks, bobbins, etc).
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby LukeM » Jun 21, 2011 12:43 pm

Extremeophile wrote:
LukeM wrote:FYI: Petzl has issued a recall on some GRIGRI 2's.

Looks like mine is included in the recall. Thanks for bringing that to my attention Luke.


You're welcome. Glad it helped someone!
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby chh » Jun 21, 2011 1:02 pm

Anonymous_Coward wrote:Hmmm, is there really any difference between a rappel device and a belay device? I've always considered them to be the same thing. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think any rappel device could conceivably be used to belay and vice versa. Some are better for one task or the other, but you are basically sliding rope through a device at a controlled rate of speed with either one.


I'd say there is a difference. Though it is conceivable to use anything that introduces friction into the system for belay (a tree trunk for example) they certainly wouldn't all function with the same ease, speed or versatility. Therein lies the distinction, however semantic it may be. For example, I have a 6 bar rack and an ATC in front of me. My climbing partner is leading up above me and at their limit struggling for clips. I want something that will feed both ways, and FAST so that I can give the best/safest belay possible. Can I belay with the rack? Sure, but as well? Probably not. Actually, if the rack had a welded eye that was large enough, I might just use that instead of the bars, like using the smaller hole on an 8. That might make it as fast. Alternately I've turned an ATC into a knifeblade after just a few rappells on really sandy fixed ropes. Not really the optimal device for the application. Possible, absolutely. Best practice? Meh.

And allthough it is just semantic, you can belay with a tree, but you can't rappel with one :laughing:
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby mooreshire » Jun 21, 2011 2:31 pm

Rappelling with two people and all their gear (a.k.a. following a pickoff) on the GriGri2 is a slightly frightening experience. I love the little guy, but if there's a better tool for a specific job I say use it. The only thing I've ever used the grigri2 for underground was tensioning a tyrolean.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby NZcaver » Jun 21, 2011 5:45 pm

chh wrote:
Anonymous_Coward wrote:Hmmm, is there really any difference between a rappel device and a belay device? I've always considered them to be the same thing. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think any rappel device could conceivably be used to belay and vice versa. Some are better for one task or the other, but you are basically sliding rope through a device at a controlled rate of speed with either one.


I'd say there is a difference. Though it is conceivable to use anything that introduces friction into the system for belay (a tree trunk for example) they certainly wouldn't all function with the same ease, speed or versatility. Therein lies the distinction, however semantic it may be.

I agree with Caleb. They are all friction brakes, but some are quite obviously suited better to belaying than rappelling, and vice-versa. Semantics perhaps, but using a less optimal device - particularly if one doesn't fully understand the operation and limitations of one's equipment - can be an awkward experience, or worse.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jun 22, 2011 8:59 am

chh wrote:I'd say there is a difference. Though it is conceivable to use anything that introduces friction into the system for belay (a tree trunk for example) they certainly wouldn't all function with the same ease, speed or versatility. Therein lies the distinction, however semantic it may be. For example, I have a 6 bar rack and an ATC in front of me. My climbing partner is leading up above me and at their limit struggling for clips. I want something that will feed both ways, and FAST so that I can give the best/safest belay possible. Can I belay with the rack? Sure, but as well? Probably not. Actually, if the rack had a welded eye that was large enough, I might just use that instead of the bars, like using the smaller hole on an 8. That might make it as fast. Alternately I've turned an ATC into a knifeblade after just a few rappells on really sandy fixed ropes. Not really the optimal device for the application. Possible, absolutely. Best practice? Meh.

And allthough it is just semantic, you can belay with a tree, but you can't rappel with one :laughing:



Yep, that's why I said this:

Anonymous_Coward wrote:Some are better for one task or the other,


I thought that would have covered the subject adequately, but obviously it needed a little more explaining for some.
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Re: Petzl gri gri 2 for caving

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jun 22, 2011 9:02 am

mooreshire wrote:Rappelling with two people and all their gear (a.k.a. following a pickoff) on the GriGri2 is a slightly frightening experience.


I have been told this is the reason that gri gri is not an approved descender for NCRC courses.
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