2011 Sera Cave Carnival

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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavergirl » Feb 18, 2011 11:54 am

Thanks Jason, most of this is correct. this was discussed further at the Nashville Grotto Exec meeting last nite, as 2 of the SERA officers are Nashville grotto members. A site has been picked, and a tentative date, although these are not confirmed yet. It is hoped that different grottoes will be willing to take on different aspects of this, like maybe one grotto handling registration, another taking care of vendors, another lining up a band, etc, etc. So as Jason said if your grotto can help please contact the SERA officers ASAP. and please send a representative to the winter business meeting in March. As I said, 2 SERA officers are in Nashville grotto, and one is in Birmingham. Nashville just did the carnival in 2009 and Birmingham is doing it next year. please don't make us have to do all the work. The more folks helping out, the bigger and better the party will be. :woohoo:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby CaverScott » Feb 21, 2011 12:58 pm

rchrds wrote:<SNIP> It looks like the next few years are covered (thanks all) but this one sort of slipped through the cracks. If <SNIP>Jason



Next few years?

2011 = Bailout
2012 = Birmingham
2013 = ?????
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby Scoon1 » Feb 22, 2011 9:07 am

What if SERA was organized a little differently? What if the SERA officers picked the site each year and instead of one Grotto hauling all the weight, the tasks were ass assigned to different Grottos? That would reflect the diversity that is SERA and no one group would be overwhelmed and the smaller Grottos would be able to be a part of an excellent event!
Thoughts??
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby graveleye » Feb 22, 2011 9:12 am

That's an excellent idea Eric, and I've thought the same thing. However, I know nothing about organizing one of these events and the thought of it fills me with dread. This is why I would never want to ever chair something like this.

You know, as I've been told, this is how the TAG Fall Cave-In got it's start. Someone fumbled up that years SERA, so some folks got together and had it in the fall. The weather was nice and they decided to make it an annual event, and the TAG Fall Cave-In was born.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 22, 2011 4:33 pm

Scoon1 wrote:What if SERA was organized a little differently? What if the SERA officers picked the site each year and instead of one Grotto hauling all the weight, the tasks were ass assigned to different Grottos? That would reflect the diversity that is SERA and no one group would be overwhelmed and the smaller Grottos would be able to be a part of an excellent event!
Thoughts??


DISCLAIMER!!!!!! I'm not a current SERA officer and do not intend to represent that I speak for any of them.

Eric, I served as SERA Vice Chair in 2006-2007 and Chair in 2007-2008. The Chair is not elected. The Vice Chair is elected to serve one year as Vice Chair then one year as Chair. The Secretary/Treasurer is encouraged to serve for a minimum of 5 years for continuity. Jim Wilbanks did it for (I think 12 years) The current S/T began his term in 2008-2009. This would mean that the minimum involvement of an officer would be finding a place for two Cave Carnival's. It would be very hard to find a S/T to serve if he/she had to be finding a SERA site every year. I know I would not have consented to be Vice Chair if I had been expected to be finding a SERA Cave Carnival site for two year.

I do know that for quite a few years there was a committee discussing problems with getting groups to host. One suggestion was to find 3 or 4 suitable sites and have the event rotate between these sites so grottos would not have to "find a site". However, nothing ever came to fruition from these committees. Also, just because a site is good now what if ownership of that site changes in a few years.

Another problem with having the officers select a site is the signing of contracts and obtaining insurance for the event. The SERA Organization is a "loose" organization and is not set up to sign contracts and the organization does not have an abundance of funds.

I would think that having more than two grottos trying to share the load would be a logistical nightmare. I know from being a member of the hosting grotto (with a couple of different grottos) at several of these events that keeping everything on track is very hard even with just one grotto involved. I know a couple of years ago there was a joint SERA/VAR event.

These events sometimes "make money" for the hosting grotto though usually the goal is to break even. How to split the proceeds (if any could become an issue if one group felt they did more than another).

There is a website for the SERA region although it hasn't been updated for quite some time. It does include the constitution and bylaws of the organization if anyone wants to read that. I believe the minute posted there contain some of the suggestions that have been made through the years about how to improve the way the events are hosted.

If you would like to discuss this further the SERA Winter business meeting will be held Saturday, March 19th at the Bank of LaFayette, in LaFayette, Georgia at 104 N. Main Street (Business US 27) at the corner of E . Villanow Street (Georgia State Route 192). Registration starts at 9:30 am and the meeting starts at 10 am. Meeting cost will be $2 per person (children 12 & under free) to defray costs of meeting place and refreshments. Banquet will cost $11 per person (reduced prices for children). The Georgia Speleological Society is hosting the WBM. Contact them for more information. Who knows if you show up you may get elected to be an officer of the group.

Discussion is good. I wish I could attend the meeting this year but won't be at the meeting because I work every other weekend and the WBM falls on my weekend to work.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavergirl » Feb 23, 2011 12:50 pm

mgmills wrote:There is a website for the SERA region although it hasn't been updated for quite some time. It does include the constitution and bylaws of the organization if anyone wants to read that.

Actually it contains a very nice detailed SERA Cave Carnival Event Guide available as a PDF here
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/SERA_C ... e_2003.pdf
or as an MS word doc
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/CaveCarn.htm

It is a general guideline to give the hosting grotto an idea of what may be needed to host The SERA Cave Carnival.

Note that it says this: "If your organization is considering hosting The SERA Cave Carnival the first thing to do is look at the SERA, Right of Refusal List on the SERA website http://www.caves.org/region/sera/. If your organization is near the top of the list contact the current SERA Executives, unless you have already been contacted."

Grottoes ought to be aware of where they fall on the list (which is alphabetical).
And there is nothing saying that 2 grottoes couldn't put on a SERA together. In fact for small grottoes this would be an excellent idea.

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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby CaverScott » Feb 23, 2011 12:54 pm

CaverScott wrote:
rchrds wrote:<SNIP> It looks like the next few years are covered (thanks all) but this one sort of slipped through the cracks. If <SNIP>Jason



Next few years?

2011 = Bailout
2012 = Birmingham
2013 = ?????

:shrug:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 25, 2011 1:56 pm

cavergirl wrote:
mgmills wrote:There is a website for the SERA region although it hasn't been updated for quite some time. It does include the constitution and bylaws of the organization if anyone wants to read that.

Actually it contains a very nice detailed SERA Cave Carnival Event Guide available as a PDF here
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/SERA_C ... e_2003.pdf
or as an MS word doc
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/CaveCarn.htm

It is a general guideline to give the hosting grotto an idea of what may be needed to host The SERA Cave Carnival.

Note that it says this: "If your organization is considering hosting The SERA Cave Carnival the first thing to do is look at the SERA, Right of Refusal List on the SERA website http://www.caves.org/region/sera/. If your organization is near the top of the list contact the current SERA Executives, unless you have already been contacted."

Grottoes ought to be aware of where they fall on the list (which is alphabetical).
And there is nothing saying that 2 grottoes couldn't put on a SERA together. In fact for small grottoes this would be an excellent idea.

chrys


Yes Chrys, the guide you link to is a very good reference.

The note you mention on the order of refusal would not really have helped B'ham as they were 13 down the list. . . of course some of those grottos have not hosted in the past. Also, it says contact the current SERA Execs who are not listed on the website.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 25, 2011 1:57 pm

CaverScott wrote:
CaverScott wrote:
rchrds wrote:<SNIP> It looks like the next few years are covered (thanks all) but this one sort of slipped through the cracks. If <SNIP>Jason



Next few years?

2011 = Bailout
2012 = Birmingham
2013 = ?????

:shrug:


Hopefully there will be an announcement at the WBM.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby roger_haley » Mar 1, 2011 12:32 pm

I am not going to elaborate, but in the future there is a CHANCE that there COULD be a recurring site in North Alabama if the stars aline right.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby tncaver » Mar 1, 2011 1:01 pm

roger_haley wrote:I am not going to elaborate, but in the future there is a CHANCE that there COULD be a recurring site in North Alabama if the stars aline right.


One of the things I like most about SERA Cave Carnival is that it was NOT held in the same place all the time. What a shame if it comes to that. :sadbanana:
In the past each SERA presented a grand opportunity to visit a new caving area! Having an event in the same place all the time is not only risky for caving landowner relations due to over visitation, it also may discourage cavers from attending SERA after a year or two when there is nothing new to see in the area.
Also having SERA in the same place all the time will likely discourage grottoes from other areas from helping out. The same grottoes will be expected to host
the event time after time due to the long distances that other SERA grottoes would have to travel to contribute.
Just my two cents. But I suppose SERA in the same place over and over is still better than no SERA at all. :cavingrocks:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby roger_haley » Mar 1, 2011 9:03 pm

tncaver wrote:
roger_haley wrote:I am not going to elaborate, but in the future there is a CHANCE that there COULD be a recurring site in North Alabama if the stars aline right.


One of the things I like most about SERA Cave Carnival is that it was NOT held in the same place all the time. What a shame if it comes to that. :sadbanana:
In the past each SERA presented a grand opportunity to visit a new caving area! Having an event in the same place all the time is not only risky for caving landowner relations due to over visitation, it also may discourage cavers from attending SERA after a year or two when there is nothing new to see in the area.
Also having SERA in the same place all the time will likely discourage grottoes from other areas from helping out. The same grottoes will be expected to host
the event time after time due to the long distances that other SERA grottoes would have to travel to contribute.
Just my two cents. But I suppose SERA in the same place over and over is still better than no SERA at all. :cavingrocks:


I understand what your saying, but the hardest part of putting a SERA or for that matter a NSS Convention is finding a campsite that will allow Alcohol! I know as I spent the better part of a year doing that very thing for the 05 convention. You cant skirt that issue or ignore it! But the fact is that Sites cost money and very much so more and more money that make it hard to at lest break even. If there was a site that cost nothing to the hosting grotto could make a huge difference.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby tncaver » Mar 2, 2011 8:07 am

roger_haley wrote:I understand what your saying, but the hardest part of putting a SERA or for that matter a NSS Convention is finding a campsite that will allow Alcohol! I know as I spent the better part of a year doing that very thing for the 05 convention. You cant skirt that issue or ignore it! But the fact is that Sites cost money and very much so more and more money that make it hard to at lest break even. If there was a site that cost nothing to the hosting grotto could make a huge difference.


A free site would always be a winner. That's also interesting about the alcohol. As I said, having a SERA in the same place all the time still beats the heck out of not having one at all. I'm guessing that even with a permanent location for SERA, that any grotto willing to host the event in a different location would still have that
option. :kewl:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby kvart » Mar 2, 2011 8:42 am

yep, gotta have the booze.........number one priority at a caving event......let's forget about seeing new places, faces, and caves....let's forget about making it easy for a grotto to host the event, which, by the way, are dropping off the list like flies.......yep, all we need is a good bottle of booze and the same o-same o to camp in year after year....don't know why we are worried about the 2013 SERA anyways, the Mayan calendar doesn't go that far...

,now, let the :hitsfan:

(DISCLAIMER) I am not against people getting drunk and having a good time, I just don't think as a conservation/educational minded group that we should put such a high priority on alcohol being served or allowed that we would miss seeing new places, faces, and caves!






[Print this out and take it to your local bar for $.02 off your favorite drink!]

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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby roger_haley » Mar 2, 2011 3:51 pm

The renting party for a site is responsible for what goes at an event there and if you don't police it your insurance is null!
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