Cave of the Bells, southern Arizona

[NZcaver]

fox11az.com
January 3, 2012

Fox 11's Kevin Lewis talks to Summit Hut Outdoor Specialist Dave Weeks about hiking the Cave of the Bells in Southern Arizona.

http://www.fox11az.com/sports/Southern- ... 26408.html

[struebe]

The question is, as a local AZ caver, do I make a comment to Summit Hut and/or Fox 11 News about how inappropriate it is to just "grab a headlamp and the key and head on down to the cave"? Anyone else have to deal with anything like this in their regions before?

[NZcaver]

Good thing there's a sensible permit process and education component before acquiring the key. Oh wait, maybe there isn't!

After watching the video, my main concern was the lack of emphasis on safety and conservation.The extensive and complicated nature of the cave and some of its challenges were mentioned, and the snapshots showed a little of that. But apart from a brief word about headlamps (but not helmets?), there was no talk of basic caving equipment or the suggestion to connect with experienced cavers before attempting a trip. I wonder how many random strangers go into Summit Hut to ask about caving, and if the store has generic caving safety information and/or contact information for cavers and grottos? I recall for a regular outdoor store they do have a surprisingly good range of cave-specific vertical gear.

This story deserves some gentle and CONSTRUCTIVE responses from cavers, initially to Fox 11 and secondarily to Summit Hut. The network should have approached the agency responsible for managing the cave for their input before airing the story. Or perhaps they did and there was no response? Also the Summit Hut representative should have emphasized more basic cave safety and conservation. Or perhaps he did, but it was cut by the network so it would fit the time slot? Perhaps this is an opportunity to suggest caver/grotto outreach, like a free show and tell session for staff and customers at one of the stores..?

PS - if the hordes invade the cave and maybe get themselves into trouble, remember the Ferno doesn't fit through the old gate constriction so be sure to bring a SKED.

[struebe]

Haha, thanks, I remember that. I think there's even some pretty ridiculous photographic evidence of my skepticism that even the SKED would fit through that entrance. I posted this link on fb and someone actually suggested I start a for-profit Cave of the Bells rescue organization, which I could use to partially fund my PhD research...I am maybe thinking about it.

I will craft a response to Fox 11/Summit Hut, and run it by anyone else interested in commenting on it. At the very least, because I'm doing research there, I have a vested interest in having newbies come only with experienced cavers. I don't think any cave groups were contacted about this, but I could be wrong. I wonder if a higher-profile response (like a letter to the editor in the AZ Daily Star?) might be better, as the comments section on news webpages are notoriously troll-dense. I hate to give negative press to Summit Hut, because, as you say, they actually do a better job of carrying caving-helpful gear than other locations in Tucson. Argh. I will think about this, and welcome any suggestions from all y'all on the topic. Honestly, though, perhaps Fox 11 viewers are better off left underground?

[Squirrel Girl]

I posted a comment to the story. Geez!

Weirdly, I was already registered on their website.

[struebe]

Well, I did, in annoyance, tweet about this last night (gotta love new technologies!) and received a personal reply from the Marketing Manager at Summit Hut who apologized for the lack of focus on safety and conservation. One of the grottos here has also contacted Summit Hut and Fox 11 news to try to get a response from them as well. I doubt they'll go so far as to post a retraction/correction to their TV segment, but at least now they know we're angry? I always find this sort of thing incredibly unsatisfying...

[frank1030]

Hi, my name is Frank and I'm the Marketing Manager for Summit Hut. As Sarah mentioned, I did personally respond to her concerns, but I did want to address the concerns of the caving community as a whole. We are incredibly committed to the conservation of all of our wild places, including caves, and do our best to support those efforts in any way we can. It is difficult to cover everything that we would like to in a brief 2 minute segment. Dave, our specialist in the TV segment, did discuss bringing proper gear (light sources, helmet, etc.), going with someone who has gone caving before, and contacting caving organizations, in a previous segment on Fox. However, we do know that not everyone sees every segment.

As NZcaver mentioned, our stores do carry a fair amount of caving gear and we do our best to educate our customers about the caving grottoes and such. We have hosted a few caving presentations in the past and we would absolutely love to host a presentation by someone from one of the grottoes covering safety and conservation.

Again, thank you all for your feedback.

[Squirrel Girl]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to come to CaveChat, register and explain.

You know it's funny... up here in the DC metro area, a guy was just rescued from a State Park. Everyone in my mountain biking club was bashing the rescued guy something fierce. He did a TV news report and today I defended the guy (to a point, as he was rather unprepared). And the TV spot had some clear craziness by the reporters. The rescuee might have not sounded as bad as he did in the edited news spot.

You never know how reasonable ya'll started out and what got chopped out. But it did come across as, 'sure, grab a helmet, and have a great time,' that could lead to serious injuries or other problems.

SG
PS - I think I've shopped in your store before

[NZcaver]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to come to CaveChat, register and explain.

Welcome!

It is difficult to cover everything that we would like to in a brief 2 minute segment. Dave, our specialist in the TV segment, did discuss bringing proper gear (light sources, helmet, etc.), going with someone who has gone caving before, and contacting caving organizations, in a previous segment on Fox. However, we do know that not everyone sees every segment.

It's unfortunate that Fox 11 didn't somehow link the two segments, or mention "before heading underground, remember to go to our website for last weeks segment about caving safely." I can't seem to find the safety segment online, but the Cave of the Bells segment is on their most-viewed list.

It's great that Summit Hut has safe caving information to educate customers. Despite my nitpicking concerns about a lack of safety and conservation messages, I think the video segment with photos gives the public a somewhat realistic glimpse of 'wild' caving on public land in their own back yard. It'll be interesting to see if the Forest Service sees a spike in visitation as a result of this, or if it's just business as usual. I'm sure Sarah would be happy to put together a little caving presentation for you guys some time, or delegate the job to somebody else equally suitable. A little effort with education beats a lot of effort rescuing somebody who gets into trouble. I facilitated some rescue training at Cave of the Bells about a year ago, and it was not without some challenges.

Coincidentally, Dave Weeks and I were students on the same Wilderness First Responder course in Tucson back in 2005. Small world.

[struebe]

Haha - Jansen, I actually replied to Frank Camp via email and offered the same thing. I have had trouble recruiting volunteers in the last few months...

[Jon]

What I noticed was no gloves even when on rope, tennis shoes and below the ankle shoes. I do like their store (east side) as I like to see and touch something before I buy it and their prices are the same as the online others. Plus they have great in store help. If there is someone with more knowledge of what you are looking at they always ask if you can wait a second while they get someone more knowledgeable about the product. They have also led me away from regular priced items to sale or clearance items to see if I could use them and save $$. They have also pointed me to a competitor when they didn't have what I need right then.
While Bells is a nice cave I can think of a few others better suited to first-timers although they are un-gated and not as impressive. A while back some kids got lost in there and ended up DRINKING what I think it was Sarah's studies. The thing to remember is that polite comments will do us more good than nit picking. Tick off the media and we can expect to be treated accordingly some time in the future when we need them. Also like it or not we need to swell our ranks, large voting blocks get what they want. Small voting blocks are often looked upon as fringe minority groups that don't matter. Could it have been better? Yes.
What often happens is stuff ends up edited out simply because it happens to be the length of time that is needed to be dumped. The bit might have been say 4 minutes and 10 seconds. However something more newsworthy came up and 1 minute and 20 seconds is needed. Someone who may not know anything about the bit and it's intended message has to chop it and chop it now. They look for they amount of time and maybe even how it flows if there is time. I doubt anybody had any misleading intentions. Have you ever said "Grab your light, let's go?"
Maybe we could interest the station in a follow up human interest story or series showing one of the three local grottos and maybe Big Brothers or Big Sisters taking some kids out for their first WILD CAVE trip. They could then add on that with a climbing segment at the local indoor mountain, Rocks and Ropes. In this day and age of electronic/video gratification we need to get folks into the real world in order to save the real world. There is no "Reset" button in nature, the more people who realize this the less likely we will need or wish for such a button.

Having worked in media and having been the partial subject of more than one media bit I will say that all things considered this was a good piece. No sensationalism, nothing misleading and nothing that made cavers look bad. Think about it, Joe Average will not notice the slight difference in footwear or even gloves if they were there or not. They will however notice that cavers WERE wearing helmets. They will not remember that David did not say grab a light AND a helmet. These are things best handled at the trip leader level, in person.

Ask what most people (non cavers) remembered about the bit and my guess is that people will remember cool things to see in the cave (formations), the group shot showed happy, average people with a big coil of rope, and people with helmets pushing the limits. They also will remember an enthusiastic guy telling them that a cool adventure awaits them. What they will not say is that they noticed that not everybody in the group was what the media normally portrays in shows ...skinny, pretty and totally unreal people. To Joe and Jane average, this is an adventure they can do. I don't know about you but I and my caving pals are Joe and Jane average. Some skinny, some not, some in great shape some not so, a few smoke but most don't, some are hard core fitness buffs, many are not at all. Of all the people I've met in all the "periods" of my life, cavers are the most real and the most tolerant of other lifestyles and ideas. Let's keep it that way, don't sweat the small stuff, look at the big picture. This was a good bit.

[NZcaver]

What he said.

[frank1030]

Thanks again to everyone for the continued comments. As Sarah said, she has been in touch with me about setting up an in-store presentation on caving safety and we are excited to work on coordinating something.

SG - I know what you mean - most of us struggle to remember when we were beginners at things - we all make silly mistakes. One of my first times back to Cave of the Bells as an adult (went a lot as a kid but I had not been in a decade or so) our trip only lasted about 20 minutes due to a stupid mistake by my cousin that some may have bashed us for - luckily we had some rescue experience in our group and my cousin just had a sprained ankle, but it was a good lesson - and every trip since then has been much more successful and enjoyable. I've helped a lot of customers here in the store heading on their first caving trips and most of them (and even some more experienced cavers) need some sort of reminding that the gear they are purchasing is intended to help protect them - but only if it's used properly.

Jon, thanks for your comments. I'm glad we've been able to offer you good service. I do agree that most people are going to take away that caving is a little more attainable than they might have thought. I'd also imagine a large majority are still going to say "I'd never do that!". Maybe most of all, more people will give a second thought to visiting one of the developed caves in the area. Again, I still think we could have done better on this segment.

NZ - I agree, it would have been great to better link the two segments. I'd imagine we won't see a huge uptick in visits to the cave - but it would be interesting to know!

[Jon]

Frank1030
Having worked at both the local developed caves, I've seen more interest than most people might think in at least trying caving. There is a surprising number of late 20's and early to mid 30's moms who get a twinkle in their eyes when you mention caving as family sport..... I've also noticed that a LOT of little girls on tours seem excited about caves...not the adventure bit like little boys, but the cave itself....