Camps Gulf

[BrianC]

There ARE signs now... The friends I was with said that the WNS signs expire after a year of being posted. Is that correct?

It's sad to think that pretty much all gov. owned caves are now closed because of WNS

Camps Gulf is one of the most unusual caves on earth, would be such a loss not to be visible in the future. What a shame, since we know that humans have nothing to do with the spread of White Nose Syndrome.

[tncaver]

There ARE signs now... The friends I was with said that the WNS signs expire after a year of being posted. Is that correct?

It's sad to think that pretty much all gov. owned caves are now closed because of WNS

Camps Gulf is one of the most unusual caves on earth, would be such a loss not to be visible in the future. What a shame, since we know that humans have nothing to do with the spread of White Nose Syndrome.

It is ashamed that cavers can't visit that cave. The bats are not in the main passage anyway. They are off in a little traveled area.
However, it is hibernation season and they should not be disturbed this time of year regardless of the cave closures. Maybe the
town of Spencer has noticed a drop off, of out of town spenders in their town since all their fabulous caves have been declared
off limits. The shame is, that the park has also closed off all the roads to all the caves in the area plus put big rocks and piles of
dirt at all the former parking areas where cavers used to park. Van Buren County has definitely proven they are not caver friendly.
Quite frankly they deserve to lose the revenue they used to get from cavers spending money in their county. It's no wonder this
county is such a poor county. Our governments on every level, do all they can to screw things up. Screwing up
tourism is a major blow to a lot of states and counties all over the country. A lot of cavers USED to travel a lot to go caving in all
the closed caves. Now they probably don't.

[Cody JW]

There ARE signs now... The friends I was with said that the WNS signs expire after a year of being posted. Is that correct?

It's sad to think that pretty much all gov. owned caves are now closed because of WNS

Camps Gulf is one of the most unusual caves on earth, would be such a loss not to be visible in the future. What a shame, since we know that humans have nothing to do with the spread of White Nose Syndrome.

It is ashamed that cavers can't visit that cave. The bats are not in the main passage anyway. They are off in a little traveled area.
However, it is hibernation season and they should not be disturbed this time of year regardless of the cave closures. Maybe the
town of Spencer has noticed a drop off, of out of town spenders in their town since all their fabulous caves have been declared
off limits. The shame is, that the park has also closed off all the roads to all the caves in the area plus put big rocks and piles of
dirt at all the former parking areas where cavers used to park. Van Buren County has definitely proven they are not caver friendly.
Quite frankly they deserve to lose the revenue they used to get from cavers spending money in their county. It's no wonder this
county is such a poor county. Our governments on every level, do all they can to screw things up. Screwing up
tourism is a major blow to a lot of states and counties all over the country. A lot of cavers USED to travel a lot to go caving in all
the closed caves. Now they probably don't.

I think it is funny that Van Buren county is poor and they seem to chase out of town money from the community. It goes against all that is drilled into us here in Indianapolis after we (taxpayers)have spent over 1 billion dollars ( billion with a B ) on two sports stadiums in ten years to bring people and their money in. I was in Gulf Shores Alabama on vacation last spring with my wife and was on the car ferry going across Mobile Bay and was talking to a man from Alabama state tourism dept. about cave rich Jackson County and how cavers come from all over the US and even the world to see all the caves and we do not see anything in a small town like Scottsboro to cater to us. He was amazed.

[onebat]

Van Buren County is more interested in developing subdivisions and catering to developers then they are in their caves.

[Cody JW]

Van Buren County is more interested in developing subdivisions and catering to developers then they are in their caves.

I am sure with all the half empty subdivisions and empty houses , that mentality is working out well for them in this economy. We are doing better here in Indy than in most places because we figured out "OPM" -other peoples money .Money coming in from out of your area is MUCH better than local money circulating. Our famous racetrack brings in 750 million a year ( most from outside the area) to our local economy. Translation that is about 2 super bowls each year , every year. Not counting sold out Colts games every game , more final fours than any other city and The Super Bowl next year. Not bad for a small market mid-western city. If you have people going to your area , you need to identify why and then accommodate them. Van Buren county has some of the most spectacular caves in The USA , they have a resource 99 percent of everyplace else does not have-too bad they are not that smart.

[onebat]

Van Buren County is a beautiful county and has many things to offer. I guess their thinking was that they could build a bunch of subdivisions and bring in a lot of retired folks that would live and spend money there. Unfortunately, it did not work out that way. One reason, as was pointed out is because of the economy and the housing market. Another is because Van Buren does not have a lot to offer retires or others moving in from out of state. They have beautiful scenery to be sure, but there are no restaurants (so to speak of), no hospitals, etc. None of the 'conveniences' needed to support such an effort.

[onebat]

btw I am happy to say that I was fortunate enough to be able to visit Camps Gulf Cave many times over the past years. It is indeed a great cave.

[Larry E. Matthews]

Hmmmm. I've never seen anyone throw bats at rocks.

Interesting concept. :)

Before I retired from the State (May 28, 2010), I know they had printed up a bunch of signs to put at cave entrances saying they were closed. Signs like that have a tendency to get torn down about as fast as they go up.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F

[Mudduck]

Before I retired from the State (May 28, 2010), I know they had printed up a bunch of signs to put at cave entrances saying they were closed. Signs like that have a tendency to get torn down about as fast as they go up.

If only public policy concerning closure had the same characteristic

[graveleye]

I believe that i will be returning to Camps Gulf in the next few years.
We'll see where this WNS crap goes this winter and if it's stalled, then we need to start leaning on the DNR to change their policies.

[tncaver]

I believe that i will be returning to Camps Gulf in the next few years.
We'll see where this WNS crap goes this winter and if it's stalled, then we need to start leaning on the DNR to change their policies.

We need to lean on the DNR to change access policies now for caves that have no bats. However, Camps Gulf does have a colony.

[Anonymous_Coward]

However, Camps Gulf does have a colony.

Yeah, but aren't the bats in the other entrance that nobody goes in? That's what I was told when I first went there anyway. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

If so, I'm sure no one would have a problem staying out of the bat cave, everybody wants to go see the big rooms in the other section.

[tncaver]

You are correct Mr. Annonymous. The bats are not in the main visited area of the cave. However, like it or not, the entire cave is closed,
as are all of the caves in the entire park. Call the TN Department of Environment and Conservation if you want to complain. Here is a link
to that department. http://www.tn.gov/environment/
Click on the Contact Us link on lower left of the page. Unfortunately they do not list any adresses (email or US mail), only phone numbers.
This is probably who you will want to talk to:
Parks and Conservation Operations
Mike Carlton, Assistant Commissioner
(615) 532-0022

Please let us all know what you find out if you call Mr. Carlton.

[Larry E. Matthews]

Let me make a suggestion. A telephone call is nice, BUT, if you write a letter, it goes in the record and they have to respond to it in writing.

I would also "cc" a copy to the Commissiner of Environment and Conservation, the Governor, and both your State Representative and State Senator.

List why you think it is important that caves be open that either have no bats or in the season when the bats are not there.

Fall Creek Falls is overrun with hunters in there killing the deer several times each year, but us poor cavers can't explore a cave !!!

Hunting? Fine. Fishing? Fine. Camping? Fine. Hiking? Fine. Rock Climbing? Fine. Swimming? Fine. Kyaking? Fine. Sky Diving? Fine. Caving? What, are you crazy !!!

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F

[tncaver]

Larry, the online link I posted does not list anyone's addresses. Only phone numbers. Otherwise I would have posted
the information. If you have those addresses, please post them to this thread. Perhaps if people have the addresses
on hand, they will take the time to actually write a letter. Letters do sometimes get better results. So far none of mine
have accomplished anything that I am aware of but if more people write, that should have more sway.