Caving on the east coast?

[Kenny]

I'm looking for a good cave, something kind of challenging. I live in Long Island but I'm looking for a real good cave. The only caves I know of are in West Virginia (I went caving in Island Ford cave a couple of times). So if someone could help me out...please? (I'm willing to travel cause well hell I'm going to have too)

[Princess Butterfly]

Spring VAR is this weekend in Durbin, WV. If you're up for the drive this would be a great place to meet lots of VA and WV cavers. VARs normally have lots of lead trips, which is a great way to visit new caves. This Spring its hosted by FROG grotto and you can find more info at http://www.varegion.org/frontroyal/var.html

Beware of any "3 hour" trips lead by Wil Orndorff, I started to feel like Gilligan.

[Kenny]

haha yeah I was talking about a summer trip mostly cause hell I'm a high school senior and I'm still in school but I convinced a few of my friends to come caving with me...and since I'm a good caver with a great sense of direction so I figured I would lead them

[NZcaver]

Being in Long Island, you might want to try contacting Met Grotto in NYC. Their website is here. Some other neighboring grottos, like the one in Connecticut, do regular trips to WV and other places too.

You'll also find there's a ton of caves in your own state, particularly around the Albany area. The Northeastern Regional Organization have weekend caver gatherings in the Spring and Fall, often in upstate NY. Their website is here.

Good luck!

[Stridergdm]

Caves, upstate? Yeah, we have a few.

And a few of us are even known to go caving once in awhile.

(Of course with me starting a new job, I may have little time this summer.)

[Kenny]

The thing is I really want to find a tough cave and sadly none of those websites tell you how to get to the caves (and mapquest is no help) plus I want to hear how the cave is which none of those websites offer.

[NZcaver]

The thing is I really want to find a tough cave and sadly none of those websites tell you how to get to the caves (and mapquest is no help) plus I want to hear how the cave is which none of those websites offer.

Kenny,

As you can see, Mapquest etc isn't the way to find wild caves - and most cavers would like to keep it that way. Click on this link to find out why all of us really helpful people are directing you to find caving groups, but not the caves themselves. Sorry there are no quick answers for you, but this is the way it is. You mentioned being a "good caver" earlier - have you been caving with other cavers? Perhaps they can help you out again?

All I can say is if you choose to invest some time and effort connecting with local cavers (in person), I can almost guarantee you won't be disappointed. You'll not only get to find out where to go, but what to take with you and how to cave safely and softly (with minimal impact on the cave environment). This knowledge will set you up for years to come, plus some cavers you meet might help carpool you on trips, loan you gear, teach you vertical caving techniques, and other cool stuff.

[Vince]

The spring NRO will be held May18-20 in Central Bridge, NY http://www.caves.org/region/nro/ There will be led trips to many local caves and it will be an excellent opportunity to intoduce yourself to other cavers from your area.

[Kenny]

The thing is I really want to find a tough cave and sadly none of those websites tell you how to get to the caves (and mapquest is no help) plus I want to hear how the cave is which none of those websites offer.

Kenny,

As you can see, Mapquest etc isn't the way to find wild caves - and most cavers would like to keep it that way. Click on this link to find out why all of us really helpful people are directing you to find caving groups, but not the caves themselves. Sorry there are no quick answers for you, but this is the way it is. You mentioned being a "good caver" earlier - have you been caving with other cavers? Perhaps they can help you out again?

All I can say is if you choose to invest some time and effort connecting with local cavers (in person), I can almost guarantee you won't be disappointed. You'll not only get to find out where to go, but what to take with you and how to cave safely and softly (with minimal impact on the cave environment). This knowledge will set you up for years to come, plus some cavers you meet might help carpool you on trips, loan you gear, teach you vertical caving techniques, and other cool stuff.

Yeah I guess your right, but most of those organizations expect cash...thats something I don't have much of right now, during the summer I'll be pretty well off with money but right now I'm completely and utterly broke.

[Kenny]

The thing is I really want to find a tough cave and sadly none of those websites tell you how to get to the caves (and mapquest is no help) plus I want to hear how the cave is which none of those websites offer.

Kenny,

As you can see, Mapquest etc isn't the way to find wild caves - and most cavers would like to keep it that way. Click on this link to find out why all of us really helpful people are directing you to find caving groups, but not the caves themselves. Sorry there are no quick answers for you, but this is the way it is. You mentioned being a "good caver" earlier - have you been caving with other cavers? Perhaps they can help you out again?

All I can say is if you choose to invest some time and effort connecting with local cavers (in person), I can almost guarantee you won't be disappointed. You'll not only get to find out where to go, but what to take with you and how to cave safely and softly (with minimal impact on the cave environment). This knowledge will set you up for years to come, plus some cavers you meet might help carpool you on trips, loan you gear, teach you vertical caving techniques, and other cool stuff.

Yeah I guess your right, but most of those organizations expect cash...thats something I don't have much of right now, during the summer I'll be pretty well off with money but right now I'm completely and utterly broke.

[NZcaver]

Yeah I guess your right, but most of those organizations expect cash...thats something I don't have much of right now, during the summer I'll be pretty well off with money but right now I'm completely and utterly broke.

Good point. I'm not sure how much Met Grotto membership is now, but Connecticut is only $5 a year. Many grottos are OK with you going on a trip or two without laying out any money to join first. Associate membership in the NSS (for those under-17 and full time students) is $25 a year. Local grottos will likely encourage you to join NSS sooner or later, when you can afford it.

By the way, the NRO event (May 18-20 in Central Bridge, NY) costs $8 for registration plus $6 per night for camping.

Generally, most cavers like to do things fairly cheap - so you'll probably find yourself in good company.

[Kenny]

I still think it's kind of stupid that I have to pay to join...I mean I could probably afford it but I don't like the idea of paying. I just think it's wrong because why the f*** do these people need my money, hell if I want to go on a trip I'll throw down cash for gas money, but also, why do you guys treat caves like they are big secrets? They don't belong to you, and hell I don't think they should belong to anyone. it's horrible to treat caves like they belong to you. You people try to hide under the idea that "We don't want to them to get ruined" but to me this seems alot more like elitism (sorry I had to get this rant out of me_.

[NZcaver]

I still think it's kind of stupid that I have to pay to join...I mean I could probably afford it but I don't like the idea of paying. I just think it's wrong because why the f*** do these people need my money, hell if I want to go on a trip I'll throw down cash for gas money, but also, why do you guys treat caves like they are big secrets? They don't belong to you, and hell I don't think they should belong to anyone. it's horrible to treat caves like they belong to you. You people try to hide under the idea that "We don't want to them to get ruined" but to me this seems alot more like elitism (sorry I had to get this rant out of me_.

You're not the first person I've heard rant about these things. Nobody is forcing you to join any organizations. Nor does being a member always make you a better caver than someone who isn't. You are simply being encouraged to seek out experienced cavers, whether you pay to join an organization or not. Getting involved through established groups is the best way I know of to find and explore caves, learn about them (if you want to), and learn to be a safe caver (which you should do).

It's not that "these people" need your money... the relatively small cost of membership might be used for things like publishing a newsletter, renting a place to meet each month to talk caving, and donating money to cave conservancies. Conservancies use that money to acquire land and protect caves, while still allowing cavers to enjoy them. Aside from conservancy lands and some caver-owned properties, you're right - most caves don't belong to us cavers. But the vast majority of them DO belong to someone, or at least the entrances do. If an entrance is on your land, you control the access - it's usually that simple. In the east, many caves are on private land owned by individuals or organizations. But even those located on public lands may not be open to the public. Access might be regulated by state and local authorities, and such caves are often managed in cooperation with local caving organizations. Even if a cave has no locked gate on it, you could be breaking the law by entering.

Take this example. A farmer has a cave on his property, and it's basically just a liability to him. He's not a caver, but plenty of cavers pester him again and again wanting to traipse across his land to explore it. So a group of cavers get together, and come up with some ways to help the farmer manage the cave. They suggest some guidelines to minimize inconvenience to him, figure out where cavers should park vehicles, draw up liability waivers for them to sign, and maybe talk about alternatives like purchasing the cave entrance outright or creating a conservation easement. All is good.

But then along comes someone who has found out where this cave is, but nothing else about it. He doesn't bother about permission, he sure doesn't need advice from local cavers, and what the farmer doesn't know won't hurt - right? Maybe these guys end up having a good time, and nobody is any the wiser. Or... they might end up entering the cave while bats are hibernating, causing many to wake up and die. Perhaps somebody may slip and fall, and require a rescue - which is no easy thing in a cave. Even if nothing else happens but they are simply spotted by the angry farmer, it could result in him closing the cave to everyone. Think that's unlikely? Many eastern states have lists of "permanently closed" caves, often numbering in the hundreds.

So there's a lot more to accessing and protecting caves than you may think. It may seem like elitism... but if that were really the case, why would we openly encourage you by giving advice and posting links to caving events on a publicly-viewed forum?

[Kenny]

You make a good argument, but these grottos don't need to publish a newsletter, and most place don't have a problem with people meeting there. Now if a group of cavers want to meet up and go caving together every once in awhile fine, but they don't need yearly dues from me.

[PaulSiegel]

Most grottoes don't mind you joining their meetings for a while without paying dues. I've been in the Cascade grotto for a year yet still haven't paid my dues...but just remember that these dues usually get turned around to provide access to caves or education for landowners or bureaucrats . Its not like they go into some hidden coffer, never to be seen again . If you really have a problems with grottoes, post in the beginner forum, I'm sure someone will be glad to take you caving and show you some caves that fit your ability.

Paul