TAG, May 2011

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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby mgmills » May 11, 2011 7:11 pm

Sungura wrote:I'd rather do prints myself as well. I'ts one reason I think that I keep my cave journal, it lets me print in physical form my few favourites of the trip. Digital images are awesome, but having them in print form with descriptions and stories right with them just keep the memories alive more, impo.

Can they be sent with someone? I know Aaron is going.


Amy - check out this link http://www.caves.org/committee/salons/Print.shtml

Some of your images are definitely good enough to submit. Snail Shell 011 and Limrock 06 are both awesome.
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby Mudduck » May 11, 2011 10:06 pm

I'm offically jealous.
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby NZcaver » May 11, 2011 11:12 pm

mgmills wrote:Amy - check out this link http://www.caves.org/committee/salons/Print.shtml

Some of your images are definitely good enough to submit. Snail Shell 011 and Limrock 06 are both awesome.

That's the same link I just posted earlier. :big grin:

Regarding specific images, you (and anybody else) planning to submit digital images and/or prints should familiarize themselves with attributes and defect factors when deciding which images to submit. True photographic appreciation is in the eye of each beholder, but there are certain criteria which caving salon images are scored on. For that reason, both images mentioned by Martha are unlikely to do well when judged.

The detailed criteria for print salon judging can be found here. Note this is dated 2006, and some of the rules/guidelines are open to being reinterpreted and bent rather a lot. For example, the list of defects includes "cave formations, rooms etc. that have been photographed many times (e.g. ... Neversink)." And yet the medal winner at the 2009 convention/ICS was clearly a shot of Neversink.

Also the first item in general criteria states entries will not be accepted if "not related to caves or caving. Images should be taken in or of caves, or have a strong connection to caves. Images obviously taken in sewers, studios, or outdoors with no caving connection may not be accepted." The 2010 convention medal winner was an excellent photo, but was clearly shot in a mine not a cave.

Perhaps the most relevant criteria is that any shot submitted should be sharply focussed, correctly exposed, and with good color saturation. Composition and creative cropping should draw the eye in to the focal point(s), and hold the attention of the average viewer for a suitable length of time. And so forth. Try not to let all the salon rules and nitpicking details be a deterrent, but think of them as tips for capturing and processing your cave images and ultimately helping improve the quality of your photography.

If you need more info, I'm sure Wm Shrewsbury would be happy to answer any questions. Chairing the print salon is one of the many hats he now wears. :bow:

Isn't this fun? :woohoo:
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby self-deleted_user » May 11, 2011 11:33 pm

Thanks! And it was a TON of fun. And it was also the first time everything went /right/!
trip to tag July '10 - migraine in Tumbling Rock, messed up attempt to learn vertical
Oct '10 - fall TAG cavein, migraine in Pettijohns shortened that trip and ruined the rest of the day and I missed some of the evening events trying to sleep it off noise not helping.
Jan '10 - migraine in Tumbling Rock again (I am so f'ing done with that stupid cave, I saw Mt Olympus, I'm good. Did not bother trying to get up there. I don't ever want to try to go past that asphalt tar whateverthehell that is again. I would like to get a chance to get further back in the cave, but not gonna happen with a trigger inside the cave itself. Oooh unless there is a mock rescue planned, then if I get dizzy I can just be the faux-real patient and not worry about falling and dying lol) and then after that next day lost a whole days worth of caving when last minute the contact/trip leader fell through.

I mean all those trips were fun and I loved them all, but this is the first time I didn't deal with messedupness and/or migraines so that's even more awesome. I could have easily caved a 4th day. Well the only thing that messed up was my flight home - engine issues on the plane halfway home had us turn around and go back to Atlanta. I was hoping we'd get a totally canciled flight and get to hang out another day haha! Or at least I was hoping for some sort of voucher for the inconvenience of it all, but noooo. Darnit, so much for weaseling out another free or discounted round trip flight for more caving :rofl:

Jansen - yeah I would assume those rules (in a cave, not something always done) plus of course good general photography rules. Although breaking rules is fun too sometimes. Eg. rule of thirds is great a lot of times, but sometimes totally wrong for the shot. And whatnot and soforth. I've also had much fun taking purposfully out of focus or movement photos. Breaking photography "rules" is great if done right but yeah I know whatcha mean. I definitely have my fav's in what I shot, and some are great but I'd never think to enter them in a competition they aren't that good. But some maybe :) Personally my favs I'd think about entering are:
Image
Limrock Blowing Cave 023 by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Limrock Blowing Cave 013 by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Ogof Ffynnon Ddu - S. Wales by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Ogof Ffynnon Ddu - S. Wales by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Anderson Spring Cave 24 by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Pipesides Pit 001 by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Image
Bryant's Cave 077 by Sunguramy, on Flickr
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby NZcaver » May 12, 2011 12:01 am

Sungura wrote:Jansen - yeah I would assume those rules (in a cave, not something always done) plus of course good general photography rules. Although breaking rules is fun too sometimes. Eg. rule of thirds is great a lot of times, but sometimes totally wrong for the shot. And whatnot and soforth. I've also had much fun taking purposfully out of focus or movement photos. Breaking photography "rules" is great if done right but yeah I know whatcha mean. I definitely have my fav's in what I shot, and some are great but I'd never think to enter them in a competition they aren't that good. But some maybe :)

Agreed. The Neversink rule wasn't the only rule I've broken. :big grin:

You should definitely consider the first shot, probably the salamander shot, and possibly the second shot. But of course it's ultimately up to you. If you belong to Costco or Sam's Club, go there for cheap enlargements and use them as oversize proofs. Get mounting supplies from Michaels or wherever else has reasonable quality boards and mats (if you choose to mat). Temporarily mount the prints, prop them on the wall or counter at home under good lighting, and step back. Be prepared to do some more post processing adjustments on the computer, and them print them again. If you can afford to get high gloss prints from a specialized print shop, do it. 8x10 is the minimum size for the salon, but 12x16 and 16x20 are more appropriate sizes if the quality of your digital image will permit that.
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby self-deleted_user » May 12, 2011 12:23 am

Hahahahahahaha you rule breaker you! :P
Awwww well I am honoured that a former winner thinks some of my photos are good enough ^.^ <3

Good idea to make oversized proofs. I can print higher than an 8x10 and I shall dig out my mounting supplies I have lying around somewhere. I've actually had good luck at Staples with printing and they are pretty cheap. I know Allegra (print shop) is down the street, biotech co I used to work for used them, I'm not sure on their pricing though. I might be able to sneak something off the wide format printers at school too, I'm not sure if they allow non-school usage though.
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby mgmills » May 12, 2011 6:23 pm

NZcaver wrote:
mgmills wrote:Amy - check out this link http://www.caves.org/committee/salons/Print.shtml

Some of your images are definitely good enough to submit. Snail Shell 011 and Limrock 06 are both awesome.

That's the same link I just posted earlier. :big grin:



Sorry for the duplication - I didn't notice your links in the earlier post. I was reading without my glasses on and the links just looked like regular words.
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby NZcaver » May 12, 2011 6:28 pm

mgmills wrote:Sorry for the duplication - I didn't notice your links in the earlier post. I was reading without my glasses on and the links just looked like regular words.

You should know by now my words are anything but regular. :tonguecheek:
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Re: TAG, May 2011

Postby mgmills » May 12, 2011 6:31 pm

NZcaver wrote:
Regarding specific images, you (and anybody else) planning to submit digital images and/or prints should familiarize themselves with attributes and defect factors when deciding which images to submit. True photographic appreciation is in the eye of each beholder, but there are certain criteria which caving salon images are scored on. For that reason, both images mentioned by Martha are unlikely to do well when judged.



The ones I liked in the second set of pics she posted are the ones you are referring to I guess. In my first post to this topic I mentioned two of the ones that you thought might be good to submit. :big grin: :big grin:
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