Where is incredible pit?

[LukeM]

Your post was irrelevant, I climb for a living lol... I was asking an actual question.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking climbing experience translates very well to caving. I have no idea what your level of experience is - you've obviously practiced a lot and that's awesome - but I assume if you had the level of caving experience necessary to bottom Ellison's you would have pointed that out, rather than your climbing experience. If you have any caving experience, you're not being forward with it. The considerations are much different.

Like TN said, there are many lesser pits around TAG that you can use to help build experience. Have you done any of these? I would be very hesitant to attempt climbing an almost 600 ft pit before having done at least ~300 ft before that. It's also a very long trip once you factor everything in and unless you have experience with long caving trips in the past you might find yourself unprepared. Also, I don't think there's a single caver out there that wouldn't highly recommend having someone with you on an Ellisons trip that's been there before.

Please understand why we are careful to make sure people have experience. Every bad incident affects the entire caving community.

[Chads93GT]

Your post was irrelevant, I climb for a living lol... I was asking an actual question.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking climbing experience translates very well to caving. I have no idea what your level of experience is - you've obviously practiced a lot and that's awesome - but I assume if you had the level of caving experience necessary to bottom Ellison's you would have pointed that out, rather than your climbing experience. If you have any caving experience, you're not being forward with it. The considerations are much different.

Like TN said, there are many lesser pits around TAG that you can use to help build experience. Have you done any of these? I would be very hesitant to attempt climbing an almost 600 ft pit before having done at least ~300 ft before that. It's also a very long trip once you factor everything in and unless you have experience with long caving trips in the past you might find yourself unprepared. Also, I don't think there's a single caver out there that wouldn't highly recommend having someone with you on an Ellisons trip that's been there before.

Please understand why we are careful to make sure people have experience. Every bad incident affects the entire caving community.

And leads to many exhausted cavers from long rescues or recoveries. I was a rock climber before a caver. now that I go caving all the time, I realize how irrelovant that experience is.

[self-deleted_user]

All I can think of with this topic is someone can't read....

Where is incredible pit?

and at the top of every page even posting pages....the forum rules...

Do not post exact cave locations, either by roads or GPS, or post directions to caves.

[trogman]

Actually, I don't think the OP was wanting to know where the cave was-it appears he was only wanting to know how to locate the pit once inside the cave. There has been several discussions that dealt with how to find certain rooms or areas in particular caves, and no objections have been raised my the mods. At least that's the way I understood it.

Trogman

[bennettbike]

Point granted, if to many people inexperienced have problems or even don't make it out our caves could become closed.

Oh well, the next trip is in 5 weeks, plan is to avoid ticks, make the second repel in the stair step side, and hopefully the next drop it incredible.

Then I'll try to find the bottom of fantastic.


Adios, sorry grotto people I missed another dcg meeting because I am watching my baby girl.

[Chads93GT]

You have 2 drops before incredible. The entrance, and a 90 or 110 foot (i forget, i was dead ass tired when I climbed and derigged it) rappel just before the pit. Once you find the 2nd drop, bolts on the left wall, Incredible is close. if you are on top of the drop looking down, look straight out to a breakdown pile and thats where you will go. up and down into a stooping crawl way which leads to the room where the 2 bolts on the wall are located. Im pretty sure it will take a 550' rope to rig from this point as a 500 wont rig from this point and reach the bottom. when I climbed out of incredible the knots used were a figure 8 on the right bolt and a looooong butterfly on the left bolt and the rope shooting straight down the passage and over the top of the natural bridge. put the rope as far to the left as you can when crossing the lip as that will put you out of the waterfall. I wore a rain coat under my helmet for the climb up and stayed fairly dry. there is a big pile of flat rocks at the bottom of incredible. If you get on rope standing on that pile, that puts you directly under the rope lip and you wont be swinging in and out of the waterfall all the way up. People rappelling over the lip just have to be sure to place it to the far right (as you are facing the lip crossing it on rope) and when people climb out and cross the lip they need to make sure they put the rope back to the far point else it will be hanging in the waterfall then the next climbers will get soaked........which can lead to bad problems if not prepared.

[Jeff Bartlett]

I was hoping to guess at how much rope I need to get to the bottom of fantastic, bleh

Ideally, more than 586 feet.

Then I'll try to find the bottom of fantastic

If you mean finding it from the Incredible side without any kind of guide, this is kind of a terrible idea.

There are some very, very strong and experienced cavers in Dogwood City Grotto. I suggest you go on a vertical caving trip with some of those folks, and preferably quite a few of them, before attempting any of the big pits in Ellison's Cave. Experienced cavers will be able to assess your level of vertical proficiency much more objectively than you can, and Ellison's is not a joke.

[Ch33s3n1p]

You have 2 drops before incredible. The entrance, and a 90 or 110 foot (i forget, i was dead ass tired when I climbed and derigged it) rappel just before the pit. Once you find the 2nd drop, bolts on the left wall, Incredible is close. if you are on top of the drop looking down, look straight out to a breakdown pile and thats where you will go. up and down into a stooping crawl way which leads to the room where the 2 bolts on the wall are located. Im pretty sure it will take a 550' rope to rig from this point as a 500 wont rig from this point and reach the bottom. when I climbed out of incredible the knots used were a figure 8 on the right bolt and a looooong butterfly on the left bolt and the rope shooting straight down the passage and over the top of the natural bridge. put the rope as far to the left as you can when crossing the lip as that will put you out of the waterfall. I wore a rain coat under my helmet for the climb up and stayed fairly dry. there is a big pile of flat rocks at the bottom of incredible. If you get on rope standing on that pile, that puts you directly under the rope lip and you wont be swinging in and out of the waterfall all the way up. People rappelling over the lip just have to be sure to place it to the far right (as you are facing the lip crossing it on rope) and when people climb out and cross the lip they need to make sure they put the rope back to the far point else it will be hanging in the waterfall then the next climbers will get soaked........which can lead to bad problems if not prepared.

OP here, I couldn't log in so I created a new account. Thanks for the info Chads93GT.

I don't understand why so many folks are opposed to helping us find drops inside of caves. We're already dropping into the caves and we're going to find what we're looking for, we just want to find it faster. I hate comparing myself to those two students who died at warmup pit... but if somebody told them to climb up to the right and rig from the bolts with all the wear marks on the rock then they might not have gone hypothermic and died. Withholding information about the interior of a cave doesn't help anybody.

If anybody wants to drop Incredible with us send me a PM. I'm sure I could learn something from you guys. And if your ego isn't as big as a house maybe you can learn something from me.

[Marduke]

Knowing where the drops are and insisting you can do them does not mean you should. No amount of knowledge of the cave would make up for lack of gear, experience, and training. A small mistake can quickly turn deadly if you are not trained to handle it, and you end up endangering the rescuers who come to try and save/recover you, and endanger cave access in the future.

So no, we are not the ones with the big ego to tell you that you shouldn't do it, you are the ones with inflated ego to say that you can without the training or experience required to do it safely, and snub the help offered to you.

[Marduke]

BTW, lack of knowledge of the rig points isn't what killed those kids, lack of knowledge and experience was, as was their unwillingness to be taught. Help was offered to them, and they snubbed it, cause they knew better...

[Ch33s3n1p]

Marduke, you have no idea how much experience or training I have. This thread is not a poll about how capable you think I am. If you don't want to help me, then go post somewhere else.

I agree it was 100% their fault for making a mountain of mistakes. My point was giving them rigging information wouldn't have made their situation any worse.

[Cody JW]

I never understood how those who died in The Warm Up could of missed those monster rope marks up top in the rock. One of the first things I do when I get to a drop I have never done is to look for any rope marks in the rock so I can determine the well worn rig points with the assumption that if it is well worn up top maybe the rub points below that I may not be able to see are smoother. I know this would of not made a difference in the outcome of those boys.But it can be easier on the rope and your life insurance company.

[John Lovaas]

you have no idea how much experience or training I have.

Exactly.

[Marduke]

Marduke, you have no idea how much experience or training I have.

Exactly, but to date the impression you give conveys that is it severely lacking for such an expedition. As such, people are justly inclined to not further your potentially dangerous endeavor.

If you do have enough experience and training, you have failed to show it.

[Ch33s3n1p]

If you do have enough experience and training, you have failed to show it.

I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you I have the skills and experience necessary for vertical caving. Now I have a pretty clear picture of how to get to incredible which is what I was looking for. I don't need to convince you of anything. Have a great day.