What Amy is down to in the UK

[self-deleted_user]

Hmm well do they have one in TAG? I mean, in January, Tenzin (from NM) and myself (from MI) are visiting David down there (Atlanta) and going up caving and such for a week. A hut would be so much nicer to use than having to camp up there somewhere. I'd love a nice building in the winter...The fact that a lot of caves are really close is like all the more reason to build a hut, Phil. Like, in Mendip you just walk 5-10 min across fields to a lot of cave entrances. It's wonderful. Then you have a nice warm hut to clean off gear and clean off yourself and hang out (and, there, go to the Hunter's Lodge which is basically a caver's pub) and it makes for an awesome weekend. People can come down and easily stay. That's the whole point - to not have to drive an hour (or more) to where the caves are, and it's a spot for visiting cavers from other areas, and it's a fun community hangin' out thing!

So. Is there one somewhere in TAG?

[wyandottecaver]

well there is the CRF facility at Mammoth, and I suppose once the NSS plunks down their 2-4 million for a new office, the old huntsville facility would be available.. Mostly, people either hook up with local cavers or stay at a hotel etc. One of the reasons Ellisons was left open was the economic benefit of travelling cavers to the local economy.

[Phil Winkler]

Cave huts are usually built by caving organizations. The cost is spread around and many benefit. Most TAG grottos are within easy driving distance of many caves. The Homestead at Butler Cave, http://www.nevtek.com/bccs/bccs-inc.htm was built by the group that formed to survey and protect Butler Cave. It is a fine house albeit primitive. In Mexico, not far from Golandrinas, a Texas caver, Mike Walsh, has a caver house for which he charges a small fee. So, if there were a need I think it would be met, but the absence of a caver hut in TAG seems to indicate it isn't needed often enough to justify the expense.

I do know the years I lived in Huntsville there was many a weekend with cavers sleeping on the floor of our house. And that reminds me of a small world story, one of my favorites.

In 1977 Chuck Pease and I were in Holloch for a 6 day expedition with the Swiss cavers. One "night" Marcel told us a group of British cavers were being given a tour and were resting nearby in Bivouac I so we might want to go over and say hi. We did, and entered the bivouac on a ledge above the cavers heads and about 30 feet from them. We asked where they had been, etc., etc. One in the back said we sounded like Americans and asked if either of us had ever been to Huntsville. I said I had and he responded "If you ever get back there say hi to Phil Winkler for me." What are the odds of that?

Yep, he had slept on my floor one time.

[caverdan]

Great story Phil

Amy,
We have huts out West that are kind of like what your talking about. I know cavers that have gotten together and used them for weekend outings. http://www.huts.org/hut_details/map_sys ... orado.html

There is a caver hut in Armpit Wyoming. I haven't been there but have heard lots of stories.

Have fun over there......are you anywhere near Wigmore? I have a T shirt from some brits I took caving that says Wigmore...14 years vindicated.

[NZcaver]

There is a caver hut in Armpit Wyoming. I haven't been there but have heard lots of stories.

I've been there and stayed in various other caving accommodations around the US. The UK caver huts seem more similar to NZ ones. A little different from the US. You really need to experience this type of communal living personally to get a full appreciation for it.

[Phil Winkler]

Indeed, experiencing a caver hut is highly recommended. As for the Homestead in VA my recollection is of me and John Wilson discussing whether the American Indian had received a fair shake. It was quite a discussion and I have no idea how it turned out. This was ca. 1978......

[EricPopoff]

I've been to Armpit several times, and the thing that stands out are the "testimonials".

The cabin has half a dozen "super" double bunks (2 per bunk) accomodations. Back in the 70's the walls of the cabin were whitewashed, and ever since Cavers have been filling the walls with their exploits...

We visited with a Boy Scout Troop, so some of the "observations" posted on the walls needed some "explanations"!

We also leveraged the rat-traps that had been placed before our visit... amazingly, we caught a HUGE rat. The boys decided to roast the creature, but stopped short of adding it to the menu.

The Armpit experience should be summed up as so...

- Bring PLENTY of H20
- Bring even MORE H20
- Don't expect to use any H20 to wash up any cavers... You are 2000' above the aquifer!

Caving on Little Mt is a remote experience... Armpit is a sanctuary, but you need to be prepared to take advantage.

This cave system and other caves on the plateau have muchas potential, but it will probably take a serious, ongoing survey effort to delve into the extent of cave up there.

Here are a few shots from our trip up there in 2006...

http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/DSCF0037.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/DSCF0042.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/DSCF0047.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/DSCF0055.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/DSCF0058.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/IMG_0012.JPG
http://troop2003.org/portals/0/horsethief/IMG_0013.JPG

Not sure why the image links aren't working, but paste them into your browser to view the images...

Eric

[NZcaver]

Not sure why the image links aren't working, but paste them into your browser to view the images...

The images are too large to embed directly into your post, and you missed a "/" in every link you posted so the links wouldn't show. I fixed the problem.

FYI, this is Armpit when I was there last year.



A lot different than the photos Amy posted! Let's try not to drift too far off topic...

[EricPopoff]

My caving buddy and I have been talking for years about renting this luxurious cabin for a caving adventure in Middle Tennessee. We each have a couple of kids and this place would suit all of our needs. It sits on top of several of the largest caves in Tennessee:

< 5 Miles away
Camps Gulf
Big Bone
Virgin Falls
Rumbling Falls

Reasonably priced to allow you to go caving for 12 hours and come "home" to a comfortable retreat.

http://www.vrbo.com/global/siteFrame.aspx?l=198442&k=1

[paul]

Swildons Hole is one of my favourites - it was my second ever cave back in 1975.

[self-deleted_user]

Posting from the Bradford Pothole Club's hut at Brackinbottom - fondly refered to as "The Dump".

My train arrived in Horton-in-Ribblesdale at about 10:20am yesterday (earliest I could get from Leeds) and Terry picked me up at the station as promised, came right over, quickly got changed. Saw a harness and jazz on the floor asked why it was there. Oh, for me? Wait what? What part of "does not know vertical/SRT" was not understood? I know most of the caves in the Dales are vertical but I was told there are some horizontal ones! Oh okay, it's an "easy trip no problems we'll help you" so that just makes it ALL OKAY. The first I heard was "it's only like 10-15 feet, very simple" which okay, that's about what I was doing in the tree so I just need to be shown how to use a stop which is what this kit was. I was explained "you just said you didn't know SRT, we figured you could still abseil, it's a through trip so you don't need SRT" so I guess a lost-in-translation somewhere?! But I was *okay-ish* with the 10-15 foot idea. I've wanted to try learning a bit about stops anyway, that's not that high, and they were saying something about being able to control my decent from the bottom? I dunno how that works but whatever, okay "only" that short of a drop can't be too horrible.

Oh wait. No. It's TWO pitches. a 20-25 foot and about a 40 foot. One of them they said was a bit tricky of a start too but no problem they are sure I could do it woo! >_< so yeah well I found out that bit further up the longgggg hike up the mountain to the cave (they were also adiment I needed at least an oversuit so I ended up in this old kinda bulky one as it was the only one that would fit over my hips and I could seriously barely walk in it. I faceplanted TWICE just walking up the mountain to the cave entrance I ended up just taking it off once we got up there, no way could I do squat in that thing I was more in danger in it I felt!) but then also found out the first bit of the cave is horizontal - the pitches are decently far in and then it's like a tight crawl in water to get out. Cave name was....uh...Huron Pot. So geared up (the harness took some adjusting to get it on...and I think it would have needed further adjusting because it was not fitting well - either squeezing enough it made walking hurt and the leg loopypart kept falling down my thighs while walking). Got down into the cave (some climbing in narrow spots wee fun!) and then some tight walking squeeze areas then had to crawl a ways and then walking again in tight but not squisssshhhh through the squeezyness tight and then finally the first drop. I told them I wasn't doing the drops but they wanted me to wait until I got there to make up my mind (ha! I had already made it up. Borrowed gear that I didn't feel good in, a stop that I have no experience with, a funky start off for that first drop - you had to climb up over a boulder and squeeze through a space as you did it, it sprung on me so last minute that I was already flustered with the whole situation...NO.) It was a tricky enough start that found out later (I just hiked back to the car and changed and waited for the others) that one of the guys actually broke a rib on our trip - got caught on that boulder at the drop and it snapped. Got out fine and all no rescue needed or whatever. But still...I wasn't there as I'd already started to go back out but knowing someone experienced and who'd done this before broke his rib made me even gladder I didn't go along with their encouraging to just do it and held my ground of Nope!

So I got taken back out. Haha it was funny, the two peeps going back out with me were in front - and went the wrong way at the fork and I called up ahead to them "uh hey - don't we turn right here?" haha I was right! YAY! (sorry this amuses me, as it has happened three times - once in Ontario, once down in TAG, and now once in the UK where everyone just keeps going and I remember where we turn - each of the three times I was with people who had done the cave before often more than once even hehehehehe)

And I guess there was kinda a disconnect because there were supposedly some people who were gonna be here today (monday) and stuff, but by 7:40pm last night (sunday) this hut was empty and everyone had gone home and no one is going to be here. So I'm prettymuch stuck without transport and in almost middle of nowhere. Luckily Andy is awesome (met him last night after getting back in from the trip) and is setting up me staying with his friend Joe and we can all hang out so I won't be alone tonight like I was last night/so far today :)

So yeah...this part of the trip not super impressed, people seemed to barely know I was coming except for the person I was in contact with who thought people knew, but the people I talked with didn't know, or didn't know until like Saturday night which is too late to change plans and jazz. There has been quite a lot of disconnect and miscommunications as ya'all can probably gather!

Haha and now I have some of the people from the Craven (another pothole club - "rival" to Bradford) that I met while at the Wessex in Mendip saying seeeeeee haha next time contact us and we'll set stuff up! hahah (this friendly fun winding each other up rivalries between the clubs I find hillarious!!)

[self-deleted_user]

Photos photos photos we want photos!!

Ah, the entrance of Heron Pot in the Dales. (yeah I misswrote last post, it's Heron not Huron)


Water trickle down aka my mini waterfall. Okay, not mine, but I found it cute how it was like two in one with that baby pool in the middle :)


Woo flowstone and wet crawlyness!


Waiting for them to rig the first drop sitting and straddling the water to stay a bit warmer while "standing" still for a bit


Proof I was there

[self-deleted_user]

I'm back home now. With a long to do list I will do later this weekend.
- wash all gear (they have this thing over there, why wash it when it'll just get dirty again? I don't think stuff really ever gets washed other than whatever washing wet caves gives it!)
- lots of laundry just from general clothing too
- grocery shopping (i, uh, have no food here)
- clean rabbit cages and groom them!
- find out what happened to my mail...there is none in my mailbox
uh really just those things is gonna take a lot of time. I'm glad to be home though :)

[Phil Winkler]

Amy, welcome home! You had quite an adventure and your blog about it was always interesting.

[ArCaver]

- wash all gear (they have this thing over there, why wash it when it'll just get dirty again? I don't think stuff really ever gets washed other than whatever washing wet caves gives it!)

That was the norm for many cavers here prior to the WNS scare. I believe that's partially what led to the bias many biologists have against cavers.