Moderator: Tim White
Regarding the rescue effort at Nutty Putty:
I think you all know that Utah County is responsible for any release of information about the incident. I have been getting requests from all over the place, as far as Italy, for information. Therefore, I called our Incident Commander to discuss this. They too are getting numerous requests, from county teams and cave rescue teams.
GRAMA or Government Records Access Management Act, is a set of laws that viciously protect information. The IC understands the great value of the information as a training tool. To avoid any problems, they are planning a couple of things.
First, they plan to have a technical debrief with those involved.
Second, they are going to create a PowerPoint Presentation to disseminate the information in a legal and uniform manner. Their idea is to do a minute by minute recounting of the events and involving all of the actors.
If you were involved, please send me a report of your activities. UCS&R keeps its own records, and I will pass them along to the IC. Here's your chance people. You did the work, now lets document it.
I know that we all like to talk about the incident, but please be careful. This was a Utah County operation. Please let them handle media releases and public information. This is a UCS&R requirement. If you were there because of a request from UCS&R, that applies to you.
Thanks.
Rodney Mulder
Liasion Officer, Utah Cave Search & Rescue
A. The National Cave Rescue Commission (Commission) is located in the Administrative Vice-President's Department and is charged with the following responsibilities:
1. To act as spokesman for the Society regarding cave rescue. (It shall be understood that it is the policy of the Society to maintain a low profile during rescue operations to the extent possible and to avoid bringing awareness of ongoing rescue activities to public notice.)
2. To serve as a technical resource for the Society on matters of cave rescue.
3. To develop and maintain a professional level liaison with federal, state, and local authorities whose resources or mission may affect cave rescue. In addition, to develop and maintain an active liaison with organizations interested in cave rescue.
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Scott McCrea wrote:Why don't they just blast the passage large enough to get him out?
Chads93GT wrote:Couldn't determined recovery personnel simply microshave/muzzmine their way back? you don't need to use dynamite to move rock to make the passage big enough to easily crawl through. that wouldn't destroy the body. Just my $0.02
Chads93GT wrote:I was more talking about removing rocks that make the tunnel bigger so that he can get out, such as in the bend you said, where its too tight. That is all I meant. This was based on the assumption that they could raise the body up again and get it started down the path to which it could be brought out. I can't even imagine getting as far back into that hole that he went. I guess some caver's are more determined about getting into tight places than others are, but I am definately not one of those people. This is the first incident like this that I can remember hearing about since I became a caver and joined the NSS. HOw long do these reports usually take to come out?
Chads93GT wrote:I was more talking about removing rocks that make the tunnel bigger so that he can get out, such as in the bend you said, where its too tight. That is all I meant. This was based on the assumption that they could raise the body up again and get it started down the path to which it could be brought out. I can't even imagine getting as far back into that hole that he went. I guess some caver's are more determined about getting into tight places than others are, but I am definitely not one of those people. This is the first incident like this that I can remember hearing about since I became a caver and joined the NSS. HOw long do these reports usually take to come out?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/man-trappe ... id=9184843
"The rib cage is built from the top-down so the lungs expand into the body cavity," said Wright. But when someone is upside down, the lungs "are working against the weight of your liver, of your intestines and the breathing muscles have a difficult time overcoming that."
Another Danger to Being Upside Down: Blood
"The blood vessels in the legs are endowed with fibers which constrict them when we stand upright, but the brain's arteries do not have that capacity," said Dr. Jay N. Cohn, a professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota Medical School in Minneapolis.
n other words, our body is designed to prevent blood from pooling at our feet when we stand up, but it isn't designed to prevent blood from pooling in our head if we are turned upside down.
"Therefore you could get brain swelling and brain hemorrhages," said Cohn.
That pooling of blood can cause a variety of problems before a brain hemorrhage. Wright explained the heart may not be able to get enough blood to the kidneys, causing kidney failure and death.
The pooling blood in the brain may also cause someone to go unconscious, or even go into a coma.
"Deep brain swelling can lead to coma," said Cohn. "If the brain centers that control your heart and your circulation and your breathing are damaged, then of course you lose your ability to breath and your circulation may fail."
To the rescuers
My heart goes out to the family and all who helped in the rescue. The life of a young man was lost as well as a popular cave. When hope turns to tragedy, the recuperating from the blow, physically and mentally can take a while. Please, take time to mourn and time for yourself. Learn from the experience, but do not feel guilty from the "should have"'s. You should feel proud that you answered the call and worked so hard to rescue John Jones. By the reports, the effort allowed him to get messages to his family and he did not die alone. He died knowing people cared for him, and he was loved.
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