Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

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Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Ernie Coffman » Sep 1, 2008 12:08 pm

Here's a link to a great article, showing what NCRC is showing SAR members...and vice versa on a mock removal of an injured spelunker...or caver. To me, this is what NCRC is all about, besides training new levels; and, should be assisting SAR units all over the U.S. Here's to more units getting involved, as this one in Arkansas has done. :clap:

http://www.nwanews.com:80/adg/News/236075/ :doh:
Last edited by Ernie Coffman on Sep 1, 2008 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Scott McCrea » Sep 1, 2008 1:52 pm

Ernie Coffman wrote:Here's a link...

There was one? :tonguecheek:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Stridergdm » Sep 1, 2008 10:16 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:
Ernie Coffman wrote:Here's a link...

There was one? :tonguecheek:

There was one. It got lost. Folks are searching for it now. :rofl:
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Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Ernie Coffman » Sep 1, 2008 11:00 pm

It was hiding like so many subjects out there: http://www.nwanews.com:80/adg/News/236075/ :rofl:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Stridergdm » Sep 3, 2008 10:38 pm

Ernie Coffman wrote:Here's a link to a great article, showing what NCRC is showing SAR members...and vice versa on a mock removal of an injured spelunker...or caver. To me, this is what NCRC is all about, besides training new levels; and, should be assisting SAR units all over the U.S. Here's to more units getting involved, as this one in Arkansas has done. :clap:

http://www.nwanews.com:80/adg/News/236075/ :doh:


Thanks for putting the URL in there. :-) Glad it's no longer lost.

I'm a huge fan of OCRs (Orientation to Cave Rescue). That's what this 2 day course was for those not familiar with it. Properly done it can do a great job of getting cavers and agency folks talking the same language.

I highly recommend any agency interested in doing an OCR (or even help host one) to contact their local NCRC regional coordinator (see the web page for details) NCRC Info
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby SpeleoRover » Sep 4, 2008 7:30 am

Susan Thrasher is a real neat lady. This one was done literally in my neck of the woods, less than 3 miles from my office door by hiking boots. Too bad I drove to TX earlier this year for the OCR. :doh:

I'm a bit appalled that there was significant talk of weapons in rescue situations. :shrug: I wasn't there so I can't be sure of the context. Just a personal point of contention.
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Tim White » Sep 4, 2008 12:03 pm

SpeleoRover wrote:I'm a bit appalled that there was significant talk of weapons in rescue situations. :shrug: I wasn't there so I can't be sure of the context. Just a personal point of contention.


I'm sure there was no official "talk of weapons in rescue situations" at this OCR. I too was not there so I’m unsure of the context. But I can guarantee if you hang around a certain group of Texas, Alabama or Georgia instructors, THERE will be talk of guns and weapons. That is who we are and what we do. Has nothing to do with cave rescue or NCRC. When good friends from across the country get together, we share in like-minded talk and discussion. It is very common for that certain group of instructors to hang out at events and shoot the carp (that’s talking, not firing guns). Our discussions range far & wide and are sure to offend some who do not share our views.

The above is my personal opinion. I am not speaking on the behalf of NCRC or CaveChat…just one of the group that may talk about guns and weapons after class time at NCRC events.

:flag: :bat sticker:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Bill Putnam » Sep 4, 2008 12:11 pm

Tim White wrote: It is very common for that certain group of instructors to hang out at events and shoot the carp ...


I really don't have much interest in shooting the carp. I think it is much more fun to shoot other types of fish. Carp are very skinny, and when you hit one there is not much left to eat. Now you take a nice big bass, or maybe a large trout,or a big catfish, and we're talkin' about some fun times and some good eatin'.

Which kind of begs the question: what caliber handgun and ammo is best for shooting fish? Not in a barrel, mind you, or even in a trout pond, but in the wild, where you have to work for it. I'm thinking a 9mm semi-auto would be fun, but a .380 would probably be a bit more sporting and also less likely to tear up the meat. :tonguecheek:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Tim White » Sep 4, 2008 12:40 pm

Bill Putnam wrote:I really don't have much interest in shooting the carp.


That should be "crap", ....shooting the crap. :rofl: :rofl: I wanted to quote Dennison, "...shooting the _____." But being a Moderator, I've get into trouble for violating our TOS. :tonguecheek: :laughing:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Phil Winkler » Sep 4, 2008 1:00 pm

I thought it was "..shooting the bull."?

I can remember calling a friend on mine on the phone when I was about 11 yrs. old. His mother answered and said he was outside shooting the bull. I questioned her what that game was all about and she laughed and never let me forget it.

Hey....everyone has to learn new things somehow. :grin:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Bill Putnam » Sep 4, 2008 1:22 pm

Tim White wrote:That should be "crap", ....shooting the crap.


Now why would anyone want to shoot a pile of crap? That would make a #&!! of a mess.
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby NZcaver » Sep 4, 2008 2:37 pm

Since we're all shooting the carp about this...

Great training, great article. I love the first sentence - "Like ants stealing a Cheeto from a picnic, 17 pairs of hands shuttled an orange plastic stretcher from underneath a rock ledge." Pure poetry! :clap:

I also found the mention of weapons in rescue a little odd (not including our after-hours discussions, of course :wink: ). The first part was that obviously one wouldn't take a shotgun into a cave, but a knife could come in handy. (I tend to agree.) The second part was a little more interesting talking about how a gun would be more useful in a wilderness deployment, where a rescuer may need to harvest an animal for food.

I guess it's a feasible option if you're out in some extremely remote area for an extended period of time with insufficient supplies and/or no means of support and resupply. I'm thinking an alpine cave rescue in Montana, Alaska or similar. But even so, having to resort to these kind of measures doesn't really indicate an organized rescue effort to me. Plus a suitable firearm and ammunition adds significant weight when you're having to hump in around in addition to all the other backpacking, caving, and rescue equipment you're carrying.

But like the rest of you I wasn't there, so I don't know the full context either. Is it possible the media may have misinterpreted a snippet or two of information? Surely not! :tonguecheek:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Bill Putnam » Sep 4, 2008 3:23 pm

Doesn't everyone else carry an ice axe or some other edged weapon for protection against the cavecrawlers? I wouldn't dream of caving without my 60cm Chouinard. I mean, you have seen The Descent and The Cave, right? :yikes:

Guns may be more compact, but they are not as useful IMHO because you are limited in the amount of ammo you can carry, and they tend to jam when exposed to the mud and grit (even the Glocks). Plus, you never have to reload an ice axe. Of course, you can't swing one very effectively in a crawl, either, which is why I carry the knife as a backup.

:cave softly: and carry a sharp weapon.
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Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Ernie Coffman » Sep 4, 2008 3:25 pm

I agree with you NZ, for something seemed a little odd in that article, but the concept of NCRC and SAR working together was what delighted me about this information. :kewl: As for the shotgun, pieces, etc. I skimmed over that real quick, for that was kind of funny, to say the least...especially when Tim misspelled "crap" and folks started writing to his "carp." :rofl: As for needing a gun to get food, etc. that seems to be a very long term rescue and someone must have been way out in never-never land on saying comments like that. As you wrote, maybe the columnist mis-quoted the comment. We always go on the "Rule of Threes," so after the essentials of breathing, etc. we're down to three days without water and THREE WEEKS WITHOUT FOOD; thus, we wouldn't want to do that in a survival situation, it's definitely possible--and even longer in some cases. It's really too bad that that part had to be put into the article, but...what can I say, what can I say? :shrug:
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Re: Now this is what SAR and NCRC are all about

Postby Bill Putnam » Sep 4, 2008 3:26 pm

NZcaver wrote:But like the rest of you I wasn't there, so I don't know the full context either. Is it possible the media may have misinterpreted a snippet or two of information? Surely not! :tonguecheek:


They probably took DJ's comments out of context. They should have interviewed Dennison. He could explain the whole weapon thing very clearly.
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