Radium Release Hitch

[NZcaver]

Now, there is some debate going on if a munter is sufficient to control a rescue load, in which case one can argue a RLRH is less necessary.

I think that was LJ's point. If you go with the standard of rigging independently for the litter tender, you should be fine using a Munter to belay your single-person rescue load. No T3WP belay = no need for a RLRH.

(BTW I scored 100 on my instructor recert this year, so clearly I must know what I'm talking about.)

[Stridergdm]

Now, there is some debate going on if a munter is sufficient to control a rescue load, in which case one can argue a RLRH is less necessary.

I think that was LJ's point. If you go with the standard of rigging independently for the litter tender, you should be fine using a Munter to belay your single-person rescue load. No T3WP belay = no need for a RLRH.

(BTW I scored 100 on my instructor recert this year, so clearly I must know what I'm talking about.)

Right, but he said a TIED-OFF munter. It's tough to lower a load with your munter tied off.

That's why I was a bit confused and was hoping he'd clarify.

Oh and about that 100... unless I'm mistaken (I didn't take my test this year ) in Level 1 & 2 a belay is only a T3WP, it's not until TOFE and Level 3 that we change that.

[NZcaver]

Right, but he said a TIED-OFF munter. It's tough to lower a load with your munter tied off.

That's why I was a bit confused and was hoping he'd clarify.

Perhaps he meant rigging the MAIN line releasable with a tied off Munter, and operating a second Munter on the belay line?

Oh and about that 100... unless I'm mistaken (I didn't take my test this year ) in Level 1 & 2 a belay is only a T3WP, it's not until TOFE and Level 3 that we change that.

Nope! Munter belays are now taught and checked off in level 1, and I assume in level 2 as well. Last weeks over-stressed L1 Lead Evaluator has spoken.

See what happens when you miss one weeklong? You'll need to sign up for retraining next year in Puerto Rico.

[Stridergdm]

Right, but he said a TIED-OFF munter. It's tough to lower a load with your munter tied off.

That's why I was a bit confused and was hoping he'd clarify.

Perhaps he meant rigging the MAIN line releasable with a tied off Munter, and operating a second Munter on the belay line?

Perhaps. But even then, you're still using an "extra" piece of rope. (and on a lower or raise, you're really not going to jam up the mainline like you would with a T3WP belay, so not seeing how this would help.)

Oh and about that 100... unless I'm mistaken (I didn't take my test this year ) in Level 1 & 2 a belay is only a T3WP, it's not until TOFE and Level 3 that we change that.

Nope! Munter belays are now taught and checked off in level 1, and I assume in level 2 as well. Last weeks over-stressed L1 Lead Evaluator has spoken.

See what happens when you miss one weeklong? You'll need to sign up for retraining next year in Puerto Rico.

Looking over the skills check, you're right. I still don't recall where in the curriculum we mention it though. Gotta review that later.

Like I say, I know there's been a lot of discussion about the utility of a munter belay in a rescue system. My personal believe (until I see the stats) is that for a free hanging lower where you're protecting against a blowout of your haul line, I'd prefer a T3WP belay simply to ensure the load is caught. On the one hand there's the argument that an attentive belayer won't let the belay get away from them, even on a sudden shock load. On the other hand we know from experience and testing that a gloved individual can hold about a 50lb load w/o slipping. If the munter successfully "catches" the shock, the 50lbs isn't a problem. If it doesn't, well then you've got a problem. (Well if you're belay is catching a shock load, you've already got a problem, this just makes it bigger. )

I am still looking for LJ to elaborate on what HE meant, since we're just speculating on his meaning at this point. (Not that that has ever stopped us before )

[ljthawk]

The only purpose the radium release serves is to act as a short throw load releasing hitch in the system to unload some component. This component could be a caught belay or some other attachment you added to the system to cross knots. Unless your rope is short, you can use one end to rig a tied off munter as a load releasing hitch. Rope management may become an issue, but it works as long as your rope is long enough. Furthermore, there are other techniques, such as vectoring the second line (assuming two ropes) to unload the rope in question.

As for a munter on rescue loads, I am not an authority so I can not comment beyond what I have been told. I do know NCRC, only one source for cave / cliff rescue techniques, is allowing the use of Munters for both lowers and belays. I have been told by other fire service trainers and industrial rope access trainers that their students have repeatedly caught simulated rescue loads without fail.

Furthermore, the radium release is used to lower the load in a controlled fashion, transferring the load to another component. There is no reason a munter, even if you are afraid to catch a dynamic load with it, can’t be used to provide a controlled release / transfer of the load.

If on a rescue team I can see the advantage of the radium release, but I don’t see any reason to carry one prettied in my personal gear when a munter can be just as effective.

L.J.

[sherppa]

Of course we could always do away with the LRH *and* the T3WP in favor of a releasable, mechanical, automatic belay like the 540 or I'D (or GriGri for single person loads). I know, I know... that would mean more equipment expense, and tougher to standardize for teaching. Why is nothing ever easy?

What about the MPD. It´s great in SAR operations. Maybe too bulky for cave rescue?

[Anonymous_Coward]

What about the MPD. It´s great in SAR operations. Maybe too bulky for cave rescue?

Based only on the photo, I would say it is likely too bulky and too expensive. How well does it work when it is impregnated with mud?

[sherppa]

What about the MPD. It´s great in SAR operations. Maybe too bulky for cave rescue?

Based only on the photo, I would say it is likely too bulky and too expensive. How well does it work when it is impregnated with mud?

Here is another pic for comparison with the gibb´size. It works fine with dirty, old and wet ropes, as usual in SAR operations. But I´ve never used impregnated with mud. Cost? $550.00