What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby snoboy » Oct 26, 2011 12:03 pm

An alternative to the Little Dragon is the one that our SAR team uses for winter operations, and is also used by BC Cave Rescue.

http://www.normeca.com/normeca/PDF/Heatpac.pdf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HeatPac-Personal-Heat-Generator-Used-One-TIme-1-Box-7-Charcoal-Elements-/400200845429
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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby paul » Oct 27, 2011 6:39 am

snoboy wrote:An alternative to the Little Dragon is the one that our SAR team uses for winter operations, and is also used by BC Cave Rescue.

http://www.normeca.com/normeca/PDF/Heatpac.pdf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HeatPac-Personal-Heat-Generator-Used-One-TIme-1-Box-7-Charcoal-Elements-/400200845429


They do look interesting. The main advantage of the Little Dragon, however, is that the casualty's core is warmed from the inside by breathing in warm air with no need to undo any clothing or other means of insulation already applied and allowing any heat which has built up to escape. A definite advantage in cases of hypothermia.

It has been found to be very, very effective in the past and is a very small unit and easily carried and easy to setup and use.
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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby shibumi » Oct 27, 2011 6:58 am

The cave-proof integrated vital signs monitor with wireless capability and an ap for both iphone and android devices is the best suggestion I have seen. It needs to be inexpensive (a couple hundred bucks) and either have enough internal battery for several days or have external battery capability (give it a connector to run off sten batteries!). Even with wireless though, it needs an integrated readout. Integrate an O2/CO2 ambient air monitor into it and it'd be bonus. Give me a wireless receiver that can be clipped into the phone line and will read the vitals out in voice.

The expanding foam splint has possibilities but it needs to be able to be taken off in field readily. They need to have a padded inside and the foam needs to become rigid within 5-10 minutes. For years I have been semi-serious when I talk about spray foam for packaging people in the litter who have injuries where traditional packaging techniques fail. Having plastic molds that can fit that space would be useful, but the expanding chemical cannot generate undue heat while curing, and the "spray foam" on the market used for household use needs to be exposed to air to cure as the solvent evaporates.

Keeping a patient warm is not a technical problem, it's a training issue since only a very few rescuers have had much experience riding in the litter for any length of time more than a couple of hours. Current NCRC packaging is ok but is a compromise and not the best solution for colder caves or longer term transport. People have tried to redesign the litters and quite frankly every "improved" model I have seen were steps backwards, ungodly expensive, or usually both.


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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby cavedoc » Oct 27, 2011 12:18 pm

We will be playing with the charcoal vest warmer at Mentone's Caving and Wilderness Medicine course. Possibly with a ResQair as well, the American version of the Little Dragon. If I could get my hands on a Little Dragon I'd be happy to play with that too, hint, hint. I've tried to contact folks in Britain about getting one but never got a response.

snoboy wrote:An alternative to the Little Dragon is the one that our SAR team uses for winter operations, and is also used by BC Cave Rescue.

http://www.normeca.com/normeca/PDF/Heatpac.pdf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HeatPac-Personal-Heat-Generator-Used-One-TIme-1-Box-7-Charcoal-Elements-/400200845429
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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby kmstill » Oct 27, 2011 2:30 pm

Some of what's been mentioned, especially regarding the heat blanket ideas, is already available and widely in use in the military medical field.
I concur about the monitor, especially if wireless from the patient to the "reader", workable with iPhone/android platform app that functions primarily in an "off-line" mode, saves patient data/intervention/drugs, interfaces with quick reference (eg drug doses) and best practice prompts for the responder, and can easily transfer all data to another medical
Professional/platform once connectivity is established.
If looking for potential for other users, make sure it's consistent and plays well with ATLS/TCCC practices.
Not sure how much functionality could be built into the monitor. Minimum could definitely include core temp, ECG/hr, pulse ox, probably glucose; some ventilatory values could easily be an add-on component if intubated. Would hope that BP could also be within reach.
Logistic success criteria would also include cave-rugged, cost/disposability fit, low cube and weight, and for cave use -high visibility. If actually developing a functional desirable product, consider adaptability to a tactical military mission early in the design phase as there is a lot of crossover in operational parameters.
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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby KD5NRH » Oct 29, 2011 3:00 am

shibumi wrote:The cave-proof integrated vital signs monitor with wireless capability and an ap for both iphone and android devices is the best suggestion I have seen. It needs to be inexpensive (a couple hundred bucks) and either have enough internal battery for several days or have external battery capability (give it a connector to run off sten batteries!).


I wouldn't think long-life internal batteries would be that much of an issue; it's easy enough to leave it completely unpowered when not in use, and once it's in use, you should be getting people to it pretty soon. The shelf-life of a well-sealed pack of alkalines in a cave should be a few years. As long as it has the ability to use common (AAA and/or AA) batteries either internally or in an external pack, any group attempting a rescue will have a few spares with them.

On that thought, though, it probably should use an odd size as its primary source if it's being stored in-cave, to prevent people from cannibalizing it to get flashlight batteries.
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Re: What piece of Medical Equipment do you want designed?

Postby polrbear » Feb 4, 2012 12:06 pm

Marduke wrote:Maybe a large heat pack, much larger than currently available (to my knowledge). Or maybe even a chemically heated blanket of sorts.

The small little hand warmer packs just don't cut it underground.



There are blanket-sized versions of these that do alright. The caution is that they're fine for keeping someone warm, but are woefully inadequate to warm up a cold person.

The military had (emphasis on past tense) what they called "charcoal" heaters that were battery powered and burned some charcoal inserts gradually, then propelled the exhaust in ducts that went around the torso (not good for caves with bad air, but otherwise very nice). However, this was not a good choice for trauma patients because it was designed to go around the torso in a manner that won't work with spinal immobilization. She could consider updating that (although it might be too late for that assignment).
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