Article on Prolonged Suspension in an Alpine Harness

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Re: Article on Prolonged Suspension in an Alpine Harness

Postby self-deleted_user » Apr 4, 2011 4:41 pm

cavedoc wrote:
LukeM wrote: it would be nice to know that you can just lean back and put your feet up for a rest (almost) free from the spectre of suspension trauma.


Remember that the studies showed improvement, not immunity. And remember too that pretending to hang passively is how they got people to pass out. Not something to do lightly. But the pain and nausea cases are times one just might want to have an alternative. Fainting is a killer.


Having had to deal with migraines in cave, I certainly would not one to deal with one on-rope. It would not be safe at all. not that having one in a cave is safe necessarily either. The worst time was when I kept trying to turn around and go backwards. I was that disorientated in the cave. And 1 ft stepdown on breakdown I would swear they wanted me to jump 20 feet into a crevice. Not fun times. On rope definitly even more danger if I start confusing up and down and loose sense of what the different bits of gear are doing for me. I carry meds with me now, but they do take time to kick in and make me tired. But still, if I was to the dizzyness and aurora stage on rope, definitly time to grab the med out of my pack, hang out for 15-20 min or so for it to start working, then keep going. I wouldn't *want* to attempt a changeover on rope at that stage. I would likely get myself into way more trouble than I would be waiting it out.
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Re: Article on Prolonged Suspension in an Alpine Harness

Postby chh » Apr 5, 2011 9:35 am

Thanks for the read Roger :kewl:

So if I'm thinking right, raising the legs may have a chance at reducing the hypovolemia? But wouldn't the acidocis be similar regardless of the location in the body?

Also, in a person who is unconcious or in danger of becoming so, would it help to move their legs for them if they can't (barring obvious tramautic injury to the legs in question of course)?
I've often caved in parties big enough to perform a haul of a person on rope (though without the litter or other rescue gear) along with an extra person, on the same rope or a different one, attending. Haul team pulls for a minute and then the attendant moves the patients limbs around for them if they are unable or unconscious. What do you think this would accomplish, if anything?
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Re: Article on Prolonged Suspension in an Alpine Harness

Postby cavedoc » Apr 6, 2011 10:06 pm

chh wrote:So if I'm thinking right, raising the legs may have a chance at reducing the hypovolemia??


Yes. Raising the legs allows blood to return to the heart and be recirculated instead of getting stuck in the legs. The problem in ST is distribution. Too much blood in the legs. Not enough in the torso/abdomen/brain. Raising the legs would send it back where it needs to be.

chh wrote: But wouldn't the acidocis be similar regardless of the location in the body??


No. If the blood can circulate normally then acid can be dealt with in the lungs and the kidneys in a normal fashion. And if oxygen is allowed to make it to the legs then muscle cells don't have to do anaerobic metabolism which makes more acid.

chh wrote:Also, in a person who is unconcious or in danger of becoming so, would it help to move their legs for them if they can't (barring obvious tramautic injury to the legs in question of course)? <snip> What do you think this would accomplish, if anything?


That's probably good (barring obvious traumatic injury...)
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