interested in learning more about cave rescue

[ApachePunk]

I am a former EMT and I am interested in learning more about cave rescue and how to get involved. I want to know anything and everything and where to get training. I have seen the NCRC website, but I want to talk to people involved in it too.

[Stridergdm]

I am a former EMT and I am interested in learning more about cave rescue and how to get involved. I want to know anything and everything and where to get training. I have seen the NCRC website, but I want to talk to people involved in it too.

Welcome. First to start, what part of the country are you in?
Do you cave yourself, or merely interested from the agency side?

If you can, look for an "OCR" in your area. These Orientation to Cave Rescue are a great place to get an intro cave rescue and there's often a part of the day simply focusing on the teaching cavers about how agencies do things and teaching agency folks about caving.

And obviously I'd recommend joining us all in Puerto Rico for the week long class.

In the meantime, if you questions, fire away.

[ApachePunk]

I live in central Indiana. I start caving when I was 9, but have not caved in several years. I am looking to get back into it. Cave rescue came up in my online searching and it sparked my interest.

[Stridergdm]

I live in central Indiana. I start caving when I was 9, but have not caved in several years. I am looking to get back into it. Cave rescue came up in my online searching and it sparked my interest.

Ah, an excellent area for caving and a very active area for cave rescue training. I'm sure Shibumi will get in touch with you shortly

We had our national weeklong seminar there 2 summers ago in Bedford. Great area.
Best piece of advice I find for agency folks... "things happen MUCH more slowly during a cave rescue."

Point in fact... one I was involved in, the patient was 300' or so from the entrance. Got trapped on Saturday afternoon. Was freed from the entrapment late Sunday night, got out early Monday morning. That's a more extreme example, but generally "distance != time". There are caves where moving a patient 300' might take 60 minutes and others where 3000' might take 30 minutes.

Oh and from teaching a number of EMTs.... THINK HYPOTHERMIA. Seriously, it seems to be the one medical condition that I find many "street EMTs" have next to no experience with and overlook it during a cave rescue. (During one mock, the EMT on my team was interviewing the "patient" who was sitting on a rock, her feet in cold water, and he was diagnosing diabetic shock, head injury and a few other things. I finally tapped him on the should and suggested hypothermia. He looked at me surprised. It had never occurred to him.)

[shibumi]

Hi there!

We have active cave rescue folks in Indiana, and the region routinely has the OCRs mentioned. If you come down to the BIG meeting tomorrow evening (Thursday March 10, 7:30pm, IU Geology building off 10th street) look me up there if you want to talk about getting involved. We regularly have non-NCRC training as well. I know Brenda and her caving group will be having a basic training day the end of March here.

Anmar Mirza, NCRC National Coordinator

[ApachePunk]

I would love to come to the bloomington meeting tonight, but unfortunately with 2 young kids and a working husband (works until 6 pm) I wont be able to get out to make the drive down there. Maybe next month, if I have enough notice to plan, I can come down and meet you, and any other cave rescue folk. I want to go to the next CIG meeting as well, whenever that is, to meet people and try to get involved closer to home for me.

[shibumi]

No problem. The CIG meets the first Wednesday of the month, 7:30pm at the War Memorial, downtown Indy. If he's there, get hold of Don Paquette, he's an NCRC instructor and former National and Regional Coordinator and he'll be happy to talk to you. If you get the opportunity for an evening away, several of us run the circle route in Buckner every Monday evening at 6pm and we welcome new folks. I will make note that if you want to be involved in cave rescue, get used to the idea of traveling. Trainings and rescues themselves rarely are close to home, and to really learn it well takes some dedication (as opposed to taking some awareness level classes). Most of us who are seriously involved in cave rescue put in hundreds of hours a year, and even folks who are interested in becoming skilled beyond simple safety will need to devote several days a year to it.


Anmar

[ApachePunk]

I live in central Indiana. I start caving when I was 9, but have not caved in several years. I am looking to get back into it. Cave rescue came up in my online searching and it sparked my interest.

Ah, an excellent area for caving and a very active area for cave rescue training. I'm sure Shibumi will get in touch with you shortly

We had our national weeklong seminar there 2 summers ago in Bedford. Great area.
Best piece of advice I find for agency folks... "things happen MUCH more slowly during a cave rescue."

Point in fact... one I was involved in, the patient was 300' or so from the entrance. Got trapped on Saturday afternoon. Was freed from the entrapment late Sunday night, got out early Monday morning. That's a more extreme example, but generally "distance != time". There are caves where moving a patient 300' might take 60 minutes and others where 3000' might take 30 minutes.

Oh and from teaching a number of EMTs.... THINK HYPOTHERMIA. Seriously, it seems to be the one medical condition that I find many "street EMTs" have next to no experience with and overlook it during a cave rescue. (During one mock, the EMT on my team was interviewing the "patient" who was sitting on a rock, her feet in cold water, and he was diagnosing diabetic shock, head injury and a few other things. I finally tapped him on the should and suggested hypothermia. He looked at me surprised. It had never occurred to him.)

It kind of surprises me that an EMT wouldn't think of hypothermia, because that's the first thing I would think of, esp. in Indiana caves. Maybe those EMT's don't have much cave experience? That's just weird. I don't have any practical experience with hypothermia, and I would need to review hypothermia and treatments and other associated conditions, but I would think of it (I hope, lol). The medics and EMTs that would have experience with it here would be the ones stationed at places that have water rescue teams...we have a few of those around Indy, but I have never worked at one or on a water rescue. Anyway, the time thing would take some adjusting to, lol. I worked inner city 911 in Indianapolis, in a ghetto....we moved fast fast fast. I think on one gunshot scene where we had to completely immobilize the patient and do a little bit of on scene work (shot in the head, among other places) we were only on scene for 6 mins. So the hours it takes for cave rescue would probably drive me a little crazy at first.

[shibumi]

It kind of surprises me that an EMT wouldn't think of hypothermia, because that's the first thing I would think of, esp. in Indiana caves. Maybe those EMT's don't have much cave experience? That's just weird. I don't have any practical experience with hypothermia, and I would need to review hypothermia and treatments and other associated conditions, but I would think of it (I hope, lol). The medics and EMTs that would have experience with it here would be the ones stationed at places that have water rescue teams...we have a few of those around Indy, but I have never worked at one or on a water rescue. Anyway, the time thing would take some adjusting to, lol. I worked inner city 911 in Indianapolis, in a ghetto....we moved fast fast fast. I think on one gunshot scene where we had to completely immobilize the patient and do a little bit of on scene work (shot in the head, among other places) we were only on scene for 6 mins. So the hours it takes for cave rescue would probably drive me a little crazy at first.

Ha. I spent several years working EMS in Indy and it's nothing compared to rescue! SAR (whether cave rescue or not) is a WHOLE different ballgame than anything street EMS is used to. A good first step would be to take either Wilderness First Responder or the Wilderness EMT upgrade class. BTW, my very first case of non-cave hypothermia was in Indianapolis in July when it was 101 outside. Unresponsive patient in a nursing home. She was just under a sheet under the air conditioning vent and when I turned her over her back was cold. The ER staff thought I was crazy when I told them I thought it was hypothermia until they took a core temp and it was in the mid 80s. I transported her back fully responsive and talking to me fine the next day

[Stridergdm]

See, that's the thing with most EMTs, they have no field experience, let alone caving experience. So yeah, the concept of hypothermia is foreign to them.

I haven't heard quite as an extreme story as shibumi's but I will say that every case of hypothermia I've treated, except one, has been above freezing.

And even with all my experience, when my 7 yo son was getting hypothermic in a cave, I didn't recognize it at first.

After we exited (it was a vertical climb up a ladder) I made him walk (quickly) the 1/4+ mile back to the cabin. I think the two college students with me probably thought I was the meanest father alive as I ignored his whining and pleading for me to carry him.

[ApachePunk]

No problem. The CIG meets the first Wednesday of the month, 7:30pm at the War Memorial, downtown Indy. If he's there, get hold of Don Paquette, he's an NCRC instructor and former National and Regional Coordinator and he'll be happy to talk to you. If you get the opportunity for an evening away, several of us run the circle route in Buckner every Monday evening at 6pm and we welcome new folks. I will make note that if you want to be involved in cave rescue, get used to the idea of traveling. Trainings and rescues themselves rarely are close to home, and to really learn it well takes some dedication (as opposed to taking some awareness level classes). Most of us who are seriously involved in cave rescue put in hundreds of hours a year, and even folks who are interested in becoming skilled beyond simple safety will need to devote several days a year to it.


Anmar

I had not thought about the travel thing. I will probably be a few years before I get heavily involved anyway, but I want to start getting active with caving again now. I could probably do several days a year, and as my kids get older I can probably put more time into it, so for me it will probably be a slow process to get to that point.
You do buckner cave EVERY monday? OK, I'll have to try to get out for that at least once some time soon. That sounds like fun.
There is a room in that cave that my dad got to name. When he was a kid he was caving in there and fell and landed on his back, and looked up and saw an entrance to a room that he had never seen before, so he brought it to the attention of the people leading the trip and they had never seen it before either (this was in 74 or 75..sometime around there). When it was mapped, he named it, but I forget the name or where in the cave it is. I'll ask him.