Re: Another rescue in progress at Utah's Nutty Putty Cave
Posted: Dec 1, 2009 11:05 pm
While I certainly think a moderate statement by the NSS is warranted (see my above post) consider that this is a sleeping dog we dont want to kick too hard.
I will preface by saying I know nothing of the situation beyond the public releases and I havent caved in Utah...yet. Also, full disclosure...I am opposed to cave gates in almost every circumstance except outstanding demonstrated threats to the resource, though the powerpoint presentation on why this cave was gated was very good at explaining the background. Now my point.....
This person had a permit and was in a gated cave. That means someone considered him qualified and that someone gave him a key/combination. Not that they should not have done these things, since the point here was to let people cave and hopefully improve their skills and desire for protecting such resources. But once things went bad is anyone surprised that the response was ".....According to the Deseret News, Michael Leavitt -- who managed access to the cave -- said Monday, "The decision was unilateral to close it. There is no backtracking or retreat."
I assume they mean unanimous instead of unilateral but maybe not......
Legally this is a whole different world than some guy jumping down a open 100 ft shaft and forgetting his rope.... Most Waivers discourage people from filing a lawsuit but are of varying and sometimes dubious value once one starts. Having this cave sealed forever to caving will indeed be a tragedy on many levels. Having a lawsuit that sets a bad legal precedent for gated caves everywhere would be a much much worse one. Frankly I hope losing a mans life and a single major recreational cave are the ONLY tragedies that happen here. To the extent that we can create a non confrontational environment where the values of leaving the cave open are at least on the table or perhaps sealing only a portion of the cave we should. But being too aggressive regarding access to this one cave may not be in the best interests of the NSS or even Utah cavers where the government owns like 80% of the State.
To quote Kenny Rogers "you gotta know when to hold em' and know when to fold em' "
I will preface by saying I know nothing of the situation beyond the public releases and I havent caved in Utah...yet. Also, full disclosure...I am opposed to cave gates in almost every circumstance except outstanding demonstrated threats to the resource, though the powerpoint presentation on why this cave was gated was very good at explaining the background. Now my point.....
This person had a permit and was in a gated cave. That means someone considered him qualified and that someone gave him a key/combination. Not that they should not have done these things, since the point here was to let people cave and hopefully improve their skills and desire for protecting such resources. But once things went bad is anyone surprised that the response was ".....According to the Deseret News, Michael Leavitt -- who managed access to the cave -- said Monday, "The decision was unilateral to close it. There is no backtracking or retreat."
I assume they mean unanimous instead of unilateral but maybe not......
Legally this is a whole different world than some guy jumping down a open 100 ft shaft and forgetting his rope.... Most Waivers discourage people from filing a lawsuit but are of varying and sometimes dubious value once one starts. Having this cave sealed forever to caving will indeed be a tragedy on many levels. Having a lawsuit that sets a bad legal precedent for gated caves everywhere would be a much much worse one. Frankly I hope losing a mans life and a single major recreational cave are the ONLY tragedies that happen here. To the extent that we can create a non confrontational environment where the values of leaving the cave open are at least on the table or perhaps sealing only a portion of the cave we should. But being too aggressive regarding access to this one cave may not be in the best interests of the NSS or even Utah cavers where the government owns like 80% of the State.
To quote Kenny Rogers "you gotta know when to hold em' and know when to fold em' "