Cavechat.org

After much debate and deliberation, I feel this topic needs to be answered. After all, the nature conservancy in Tennessee, The United States Fish and Wildlife Service, most all of the news articles pertaining to WNS, say we can. This response to the public has just as much credence as the nuclear plant just down the street overheating and radiating vast populations of people. This can happen, yes I agree, but does it happen? do we spread WNS ? In the past three years 100% of the evidence says WE DO NOT! Sure we could spread the spores, sure we can bring dirt and other substance from one cave environment into another. Most of the cave environments are very similar and contain similar species. So is that any different than walking from my yard to my neighbors yard and tracking similar dirt? Not one bit! I strongly concede that bats in maternity and hibernation wards should be avoided so they can do their thing without much interruption. But lets be truthful here! Speculation has sent many of good people down a dangerous path. Speculation has no facts. Speculation must be avoided! The first signs of WNS required constraint and time, to gain some understanding towards facts. Never ever should humans have been named as a vector! Early on we could have been considered possible until, what we now know shows bat to bat for sure, do and will, continue to be the vector. The problem now, is humans have gone from a possible to probable vector in more recent remarks from official sources. Official sources are now asking private land owners to close their caves? I have a huge concern here! What has happened? So the question , Do cavers spread WNS?, must be answered, or the caves must be opened. A post response to Cheryl (a long time 10 years or 100 years) is not realistic! If our great science cannot figure this out, then we will have to change science!

I wanted to edit this to show humiliation I received. I told a customer in conversation that "I am a caver" and received a reply " So you guys are spreading the bat disease"

Ok here we go. Without speculating...Are we spreading WNS?

*Drum roll*...

NO! Whoops I was speculating.

Ok, YES! Ah crap. Still speculation.

I'm gonna have agree with Mr. Picard on this one.

BrianC wrote:If our great science cannot figure this out, then we will have to change science!

After reading through a few-hundred posts on CaveChat, I'm pretty confidant that some people here already have!

I would really like facts!

LOL Scott!

Brian,

I sympathize with you, and agree that the difference between possibility and probability have been trampled underfoot. However.......

The question really isn't can humans spread WNS, or even do humans spread WNS, it's do they spread WNS enough to matter? Do they spread it long distances in uncertain environments without bat hosts? Do they spread it regularly at short distances? Both questions are important and have different management implications

Now, as you point out yourself,(though you say the opposite) 100% of the evidence doesn't say anything. There is information that could support both sides that you provide. What is lacking is observation of events that preclude bats, that would show us it *is* happening rather than if it can.

Caves are NOT similiar like you and your neighbors yard! That is why the USFWS approach is so flawed. Your simply making the same mistake in reverse.

Besides, at this point it doesn't matter. Bats are dying, caves are being closed, rash and illinformed decissions and statements are rampant. Now its simply a proverbial knife fight (using letters, petitions, and press releases) to see who wins after the smoke clears.

Scott McCrea wrote:

Mister Data, How many fingers am I holding up?

To answer the original poster's question, in heiroglyphics.... that is, in ....



a counter opinion followed, as uncovered at Giza...



But mostly they felt thusly about it....




And then one day Pharaoh got tired of it and said....
and made them build the pyramids.

driggs wrote:

BrianC wrote:If our great science cannot figure this out, then we will have to change science!

After reading through a few-hundred posts on CaveChat, I'm pretty confidant that some people here already have!

As have not a small number of biologists.

BrianC wrote:Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrom?

Excellent question, Brian. I know I don't.

The question is very simple, Do cavers spread WNS? (A syndrome associated with incredible high mortality in bats) Not, do cavers spread spores? The answer is also simple, yes or no! If John Q Public is told that cavers are spreading WNS, then facts have to back up the statement. Again this is a very simple question, and if the response is not sure, then any statement by official sources can only be "We don't know". The statements made currently are Possible, Probable, and more than likely.

hewhocaves wrote:

Scott McCrea wrote:

Mister Data, How many fingers am I holding up?

To answer the original poster's question, in heiroglyphics.... that is, in ....



a counter opinion followed, as uncovered at Giza...



But mostly they felt thusly about it....




And then one day Pharaoh got tired of it and said....
and made them build the pyramids.

Y'all fellers must be sittin at home smokin some hooch!

The answer to this question WILL lead to the discovery of what WNS is. Why are so many afraid of this?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10073/1042461-110.stm I re posted this from another thread. It demonstrates factual evidence for the caver transport falsities.

Simple answer to this thread is NO.