Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby Phil Winkler » Jul 12, 2011 12:44 pm

And that is the style of writing being taught to journalism students today. How sad. It wreaks of sensationalism and misstates so many things as facts. CBS news, too.
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby BrianC » Jul 12, 2011 1:17 pm

Nguyen asked Roby, "How much time do you have?"

He replied, "(We have) very little time. Less than a year."

"And then what happens?" Nguyen asked.

"It spreads out West and we lose millions and millions of bats," he said.

Just one more year till the west sees this! howd they know that?
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby BrianC » Jul 12, 2011 1:20 pm

Phil Winkler wrote:And that is the style of writing being taught to journalism students today. How sad. It wreaks of sensationalism and misstates so many things as facts. CBS news, too.

Not at all, They are just relaying what they're told by those in the know. Nothing sensational added could possibly be any more spectacular than what they have been told. :waving:
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby Steve Pitts » Jul 12, 2011 5:10 pm

I am outraged by the misleading propaganda and false information being propagated by USFWS. Bad science and bad journalism at the expense of the caving community. Imagine how fruitless their efforts will be, having been based on so many absurd assumptions.
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby BrianC » Jul 12, 2011 7:17 pm

Steve Pitts wrote:I am outraged by the misleading propaganda and false information being propagated by USFWS. Bad science and bad journalism at the expense of the caving community. Imagine how fruitless their efforts will be, having been based on so many absurd assumptions.


You are so correct Steve! And the USFWS doesn't care less that they do this! If assumptions were valid, then we would still be studying the underground, but they must have other reasons and use bats as a scapegoat? I do believe that they felt that they didn't have control of the underground and needed something that could bring reason for the control. Just a thought!
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby tncaver » Jul 12, 2011 8:17 pm

BrianC wrote:You are so correct Steve! And the USFWS doesn't care less that they do this! If assumptions were valid, then we would still be studying the underground, but they must have other reasons and use bats as a scapegoat? I do believe that they felt that they didn't have control of the underground and needed something that could bring reason for the control. Just a thought!


Control does seem to be the issue for them, doesn't it. Why? Who knows? But it seems our government wants to control the whole world including us. Sorry for the
political statement but it applies to caves and caving as well as the rest of the world. :sadbanana:
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby BrianC » Jul 12, 2011 9:31 pm

tncaver wrote:
BrianC wrote:You are so correct Steve! And the USFWS doesn't care less that they do this! If assumptions were valid, then we would still be studying the underground, but they must have other reasons and use bats as a scapegoat? I do believe that they felt that they didn't have control of the underground and needed something that could bring reason for the control. Just a thought!


Control does seem to be the issue for them, doesn't it. Why? Who knows? But it seems our government wants to control the whole world including us. Sorry for the
political statement but it applies to caves and caving as well as the rest of the world. :sadbanana:

Don't be sorry for stating the obvious, It will be a cold day in **** when reasonable people are censored.
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby BrianC » Nov 3, 2011 2:03 pm

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrom?

Postby BrianC » Nov 3, 2011 2:09 pm

hewhocaves wrote:
Scott McCrea wrote:Image

Mister Data, How many fingers am I holding up?

To answer the original poster's question, in heiroglyphics.... that is, in :egyptian: ....

:question: :shrug: :panic: :beatinghorse:

a counter opinion followed, as uncovered at Giza...

:mad2: :mad2: :nuts:

But mostly they felt thusly about it....

:duel: :bash: :badpc: :punch:


And then one day Pharaoh got tired of it and said.... :shhh:
and made them build the pyramids.


:rofl:
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrom?

Postby eyecave » Mar 13, 2016 5:54 pm

BrianC wrote:The answer to this question WILL lead to the discovery of what WNS is. Why are so many afraid of this?


:roll: i have never seen a caver with WNS........many have a white frosting around their nose and mouth; but i think that is hair......can cavers spread the spores?...certainly...by the (large numbers) they can...........cavers don't walk on the ceilings of caves...bats don't walk on the floor of caves.....(both with usually added).......TECHNICALLY i can understand the "blame the caver" mantra......but i believe it would have to account for a very insignificant number in the overall case numbers....... if any at alll......however, how many of us would allow a single aids virus in our blood stream.. :shrug: .........everyone knows the european bats get wns..... but they can survive even though they have WNS.......so, i am certain north american and south american bats will have a few survivors and these immune-enough few will eventually reestablish numbers........humans might come up with something that temporarily "works" but evolution is the final solution.... :banana: .....bats get WNS and they live with completely healthy other bats they never once warn about their "std". :yikes: ..i think i can figure out who is to blame here........ :doh: .....however...i don't want cavers to get off the hook so easily.......we must assist evolution......we must remove our influence from its workings.....how can we do that you ask?......i can think of only two sure ways........cavers must stop going in all caves with bats, pretty much all of them, during the months of species hibernation.....and i am not talking about human species here........after the batpolypse peaks and numbers start up the ban can then be experimentally lifted..... :boxing: .........tough stuff, i realize that..,...but we have survived the black plague, their civil war, prohibition, rock and roll, the hippies.....we can do this...we could hold all parties during the winter months, have sacrificial caves and pits that we go in anyway, have forums where we publically discuss love, caving, bats, and what all that means....i am sure cavers could come up with an entertainment in lieu of disturbing sick bats trying to survive a parasite...come on people...... lets get imaginative about assisting evolution cause we sure as hell ain't gonna stop it........lets hear some ideas.........the only thing i can come up with is lets treat the act of caving like we are making out with someone you care for..... :tonguecheek: ....my other method is just tooooooooo weird for most all educated and a slim majority of the uneducated....kinda different from the first...i'd like to think that somewhere teddy that ole rough rider is smiling................just introduce hundreds of european bats here during the prime batcopolypse.....and then deal with it afterwards...........................what?....we should probably goggle european bat-bourne viruses first..........you are right batgirl.....robin, make it so.......
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby PYoungbaer » Mar 15, 2016 9:59 am

For perspective, this view from the Northeast, where WNS was first discovered:

With the listing of the Northern Longeared bat (Myotis septentrionalis) as federally threatened, every cave that has a historical record of even one MYSE has been deemed as a hibernaculum and is closed from Oct. 1 through May 15. This includes the NSS preservers of Barton Hill (Gage Cave), McFails, and Schoharie Caverns, as well as most of the caves owned by the Northeastern Cave Conservancy. Of course, the NSS and NCC have closed their bat caves for the winter every year since 2008, so not much is new - with a couple of exceptions: the NCC's Onesquethaw and Clarksville Caves. Onesquethaw floods to the ceiling, but many years ago there was a record of a MYSE. Clarksville has more recent data. The NCC is working with NYDEC to "de-list" both caves with evidence that the sites are not suitable hibernacula, but that's likely to take another year for Onesquethaw and two for Clarksville.

The organized caving community here is honoring winter cave closures for hibernacula, and is assisting the state wildlife agencies in winter surveys and management and getting the word out to the public. Our bat populations have stabilized, and in some cases are showing signs of recovery. However, the MYSE population was so small to begin with, it may not survive. Many winter and summer acoustic surveys don't record any anymore. That's just the harsh reality.

To me, Eyecave is correct. The bats have taken care of killing themselves. While there are WNS treatment experiments still ongoing, evolution is going to win out. There are and will be survivors. We can aid them by staying out of bat caves during hibernation, protecting maternity habitat, and being cautious by not taking gear used in the WNS region elsewhere to help prevent the inadvertent spread of the disease.

P.S. I'm one of those white-frosted cavers :waving:
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Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby Ernie Coffman » Mar 15, 2016 8:38 pm

Nice comment, Peter. Good to know the latest info on what you're advocating. So you're a white-nose caver, 'eh? Well Dave Cowan was the first, if you recall at the Texas convention. Leave it to Dave to start things. :yikes:
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Re: Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby eyecave » Mar 15, 2016 10:16 pm

i am very pleased to find out that a large segment of the caving population has decided to let sleeping bats hang... :cavechat: ..prohibiting human visitation to the caves which the bats biology elects to seasonally occupy is the right and logical thing to do...... :sadbanana: ......our collective response should be to all collectively do this....our leaders....those from each grotto to those near where-ever the library currently is should try to make this a law!... :boxing: ... i also have to mention this,..... :shhh: ..... being a student of the sciences i am acutely aware of the fact that a percentage of hibernating bats will congregate in almost any cave and that some of the breeding bats will also select nurseries where only a few bats gather.. :shrug: ....also the more rare bats will be using these locations with a greater likelihood simply because the larger colonies of bats will take over the best locations and probably tend to drive the more rare bats out..... :shrug: .....so..........i strongly feel that cavers should stay out of nearly ALL caves during that period... :argue: ....each and every cave could potentially house the noah of that species of bats....... :cave softly: ....its not like we have to do this forever........just long enough to let this biological tsunami pass.......lets see some time-space recognition and maturity here...... :sadbanana:
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Do Cavers spread White Nose Syndrome?

Postby Ernie Coffman » Mar 16, 2016 12:10 am

Interesting point of view, Eyecave. I believe all of the organized cave grottoes go along with your thoughts. It's the non-affiliated cavers that we have to try and reach; and, I believe that's been a major problem since this all started, like Peter wrote in his message--2008, I believe it was, up in the northeast.

Sure loved your area for a couple of national conventions and have fond memories of caving there, along with visiting a lot of different areas. Keep up your studies and maybe we'll see your name in print, one of these days. :clap:
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