Why are no new WNS sightings becoming public?

[BrianC]

I have been wondering why we haven't had any new information about any new WNS sightings! With the information about how quickly the Wisconsin bats placed into an old mine and quickly being infected, surely if bordering caves have been checked then signs would defiantly be there! Is anyone even looking? The temps have been low enough that even if the thoughts of warmer temps slowing down the spread would not work this year!
Can someone chime in even to say what caves and mines have recently been searched ( with dates) even to say no new sightings have been observed!
Right now is the time!
The Georgia DNR is having a meeting in 2 weeks to discuss WNS and doesn't have ( as far as I have observed) any new information about this years discoveries!

[wyandottecaver]

Brian,

The surveys are delayed (many occured last year in late Jan) since they do not want to enter the caves twice in 1 season and WNS is more apparent the later you check. I know there are some surveys that have already been done and a few message boards mention that they are seeing further WNS in previously affected sites including some die-offs. The updated map on the NSS site shows 1 new PA county this winter and I suspect others will be added as late winter surveys in Jan/Feb are conducted.

You are quite correct in that the timing of their meeting is dicey. Maybe on purpose? right now its everythings is cool keep caving and ohh by the way if GA becomes a WNS border state then everybody stay home. Well last year WNS was 1 county away from TN and if it gets to TN then bam, GA caving gets shut down. Having the meeting just before the period when WNS advances are most likely to be documented means people might be more passive at the meeting even though a major change is virtually certain very soon.

[rebelfirefighter]

I'm trying to keep up with this WNS stuff the very best I can but I'm fairly green at it compared to some of yall. My personal belief is that none of this has anything to do with humans spreading it. Its nature and theres nothing you can do but let it run its course and play its self out. I don't believe closing anything is going to help.

I've heard Georgia is wanting to close everything if they become a buffer state. What is Alabama's stance? They will be a buffer state also. If Georgia is closed as soon as it becomes a buffer state all it will do is delay the tracking of the WNS. IF WNS enters Georgia and nobody's in the caves then how are we even gonna know its here. The scientist can't and won't visit every cave. They are ignoring their greatest resource which is the cavers. No successful wars are fought without a man inside on the ground reporting back information. In this case you need cavers inside underground. Cavers can report the "when's and wheres" and maybe find something leading to the big "whys". I honestly believe that they need to be concerning themselves more with the patterns that the bats are moving and with trying to track them than trying to keep people out of caves.

Another note on things being public. Just about the only part of the public who knows WNS even exists is the organized caving community. You here about it here, the NSS web site and Gottos, thats it. No signs, nothing on national forest websites that I've seen. Basically if you and your buddies occassionally cave and your not part of organized caving you could be caving in these WNS and buffer states and not have a clue that you are breaking the law. Thats not even mentioning joe blow with a single flash light. Its like they are making it a big deal for the responsible people but it doesn't matter if the rest know anything about it or not. (Not ment to down the occassional, non organized caver). Its like gun control, they wanna make it nearly impossible for an honest law abiding citizen to own and carry a firearm but a common criminal can get a hold of one like its nothing. Backwards world we live in aint it!

[YuccaPatrol]

I actually HAVE seen signs stating that caves are closed due to WNS right here in Alabama. Each of the trailheads leading into the Sipsey Wilderness has a sign explaining that all caves are closed as a precaution against WNS. But this is federal land and not state land.

[ArCaver]

I'd like to get back to the original question, why no new sightings? I don't mean in cave. My understanding is the first sign of trouble in NY was reports of bats flying outside of the hibernaculum in cold weather. We've certainly had plenty of cold weather, I've been watching in my neighborhood, I've gotta think others are watching too.

[hewhocaves]

IIRC, last year the new cases started showing up in the second half of January (and there was the same speculation about why there were no new cases in the first half of January )

Also, with fewer cavers caving this year, the odds of cavers seeing bats dying outside the entrance are going to be less. So we'll get answers later and later.

Maybe we should all take turns checking entrances?

[wyandottecaver]

see here

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6083&start=795#p80826

[ArCaver]

see here

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6083&start=795#p80826

That's in PA. Already a WNS hotspot. Where are the new sites in the south to be expected if cavers are spreading it?

[Evan G]

Hey guy's,

Fungi grow slowly but as a fungi that are growing under a cold conditions will not take days but months because of the slow growth. Bats having a slight higher temp will help in that growth but it will still be slow. Your looking at fungi that sit on bats that are dormant, it will never be overnight. What are you looking for a instant die off? It is a fungi....
E

[PYoungbaer]

Brian, et al,

Assuming that WNS manifests as it has the past several years, we are just now entering the period of winter hibernation when the bats will start running out of stored body fat. This will cause them to exhibit the familiar behaviors: moving to the front of caves and mines, flying outside during the day, and dying. Most of the folks working on WNS are bracing for a difficult next 3-4 months.

As others have mentioned, both cavers and researchers have cut back on their time in sites, or delayed their monitoring, so it's to be expected that sightings will have been diminished, anyway. NYDEC, for example, won't start up their winter monitoring until later this month. Cavers will be assisting, as they have for many years.

But the main reason we don't have lots of reports yet is that we're just getting to the crucial time in hibernation when they run out of fuel.

PA is a large state, and has not yet fully felt the impact of WNS, despite several confirmed sites. This fall, the swarming surveys documented many less animals and historic sites, but there are thousands more sites. I expect we'll get many reports from PA.

Remember also that the addition of a WNS county to the official map does not occur until there is lab confirmation of the fungus. This takes a few weeks to culture in the lab. The new PA site is next to NJ, not unexpected. We still do not have a quick field diagnostic, although researchers are working on one.

In NY and VT, we have had WNS reports in October and November, earlier than ever. One report, Shingle Gulley, in NY, had hundreds of little browns already fully fungused (if that's a word) early fall. However, a sample was not taken and sent to the USGS lab, so it will not appear on the map. Doing that was not considered a priority, as we're not aware of any eastern NY bat cave that isn't infected.

In Virginia, the project being conducted by the Virginia Heritage Program (three part project funded by USFWS, NSS, and USFWS again) has documented bats coming into hibernation with wing damage. This tells us we can expect fully manifested WNS later this year.

I'm not aware of any information that would lead me to believe this winter won't be very bad in the Virginias, PA, and perhaps beyond. If you're wishing for lots of WNS reports, you may very well get what you wish for. The news would be if we don't.

[PYoungbaer]

With the information about how quickly the Wisconsin bats placed into an old mine and quickly being infected,

Brian - the Wisconsin bats placed in the mines in Vermont have not yet shown signs of WNS, according to the wildlife folks who checked on them over the holidays. Not sure what you heard.

[wyandottecaver]

huh... I also remember a posting about them showing signs in like 8 weeks....

[PYoungbaer]

The two sites I am referring to are the Greeley Talc Mine and the Bridgewater Gold Mine in Vermont. From the reports I've seen, there is no sign of WNS yet among the healthy Wisconsin bats that were placed there this fall. Are you referring to the same sites? If so, I'd like to know what that other post is.

[BrianC]

huh... I also remember a posting about them showing signs in like 8 weeks....

I read that and now it has disappeared! I will find it though!

[ArCaver]

huh... I also remember a posting about them showing signs in like 8 weeks....

I read that and now it has disappeared! I will find it though!

Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6083&start=795#p80651

As for an earlier posters blanket statement that fungi grow slowly go to http://www.doctorfungus.org/thelabor/sec8.pdf and scroll to section VI. I think this would be applicable since it's still open to debate whether the fungus is the primary infection or an opportunistic infection, especially in light of the infected bat in France.