Georgia Calls WNS Meeting for Jan 21, 2010

[PYoungbaer]

(Note: Thanks to Don Hunter for passing this along.)

"We are organizing a group of people in Georgia who may be interested in
receiving information regarding White Nose Syndrome (WNS) in bats. We
put together a list of people we thought may be interested and that list
includes you. If you are not interested in receiving any more WNS email,
please let me know and I'll remove your name from the list. If there is
someone who should be on the list instead of you, give me their email
address and I'll replace yours on the list. Also, please pass this on to
other individuals who may be interested. We want to include as many
partners as possible, both private and public.

Following the advice of the US Fish and Wildlife Service and several
other Southeastern states, we have put together a Draft White Nose
Syndrome Response Plan for Georgia. We are finishing up the first draft
of the plan and will send it out for review a couple weeks before we
have a public meeting. If you're interested in participating in the
meeting, here are the details:

White Nose Syndrome Plan Meeting
Thursday, January 21st, 2010, 7:00 PM
Georgia Wildlife Federation Alcovy Conservation Center
Covington, GA (Directions:
http://www.gwf.org/locations/acc/directions.html )

The plan will be sent out to the WNS email group so everyone will have a
chance to comment even if they cannot attend the meeting.

Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. For updated
information on WNS, please visit the USFWS website:
http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html

Thanks for your participation.

Trina Morris
Wildlife Biologist
Georgia Dept. of Natural Resources
Nongame Conservation Section
2065 U.S. Hwy. 278 S.E.
Social Circle, GA 30025-4743
Ph: 770-918-6411 or 706-557-3032
Fax: 706-557-3033
katrina.morris@dnr.state.ga.us
http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/

[graveleye]

Thanks for sharing this. I will be there and will probably carry a mob with me.

[BrianC]

what can this accomplish? What is on the agenda? Do the state D NR's have any real recourse as to USFW demands? If so then I would surely like to have an input!

[Mudduck]

what can this accomplish?

Sounds like a good opportunity to be heard.

[graveleye]

I hope to have a chance to make a difference.

Sitting around and complaining about it on a message forum is not making a difference.

Time for some of us to get our hands dirty (outside the cave).

[wyandottecaver]

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could forward a draft when it becomes available. Indiana will be doing this soon I suspect.

Keep in mind that the USFWS doesnt OWN many caves. They recommend. Of course they do own the right to many permits and federal funding dollars which is why the States listen to them. In IN it seems to be that cavers are not influencing the USFWS (who has their own behind to cover) or DNR directly. But rather creating a political issue for those to whom the DNR answers. In this sense most of the constructive talking will likely be taking place higher in the foodchain.

So, if the politicians in GA (who probably care little and understand less about WNS directly) see there are a lot of squeaky wheels at the meeting it might do more good than you think. The key is dont mess with the middlemen even if they are the ones who logically know whats going on. Find the guy who just wants to make his problem (you) go away and has the power to tell the DNR to solve his problem.....The USFWS is talking to those folks and they have a different idea on how to make his problem go away!

[graveleye]

It's no secret that the Georgia DNR is so strapped that they are asking the local caving community here for money to build a gate on one of their more fragile caves. The state can't even come up with the money to take care of their own property much less anything else.
My aim will be to try to forge a constructive bond with them - I don't anticipate a fight or bad blood. There are quite a few well known cavers who are also DNR and former DNR. I hope to get some of them to come out as well.

[tncaver]

It's no secret that the Georgia DNR is so strapped that they are asking the local caving community here for money to build a gate on one of their more fragile caves. The state can't even come up with the money to take care of their own property much less anything else.
My aim will be to try to forge a constructive bond with them - I don't anticipate a fight or bad blood. There are quite a few well known cavers who are also DNR and former DNR. I hope to get some of them to come out as well.

Tennessee did the same thing by requesting money to put a new gate on Big Bone Cave. Because the cave is the best saltpeter
cave in TN, even I contributed. But I don't think they have enough money yet.

I think it is admirable that Georgia has advertised for public input on the upcoming USFWS WNS recommendations. That is more than the state of Tennessee has done. Tennessee simply followed the USFWS guidelines blindly.

[Batgirl]

Me and my posse will be there too. DNR is following USFWS guidelines and proposing that all caves and mines within states that are 250 miles or more from the nearest known occurrence of WNS including western Ohio, western Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, Western Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama be closed for recreational use. Even though WNS has not yet been identified in any of these states.

Here is the link for the Area 3 implementation guide: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/WNS_SD ... e_2009.pdf

And I will tell you what else worries me as well. Scientific research has shown that WNS thrives in damp, cold caves and mines. Scientists have been hopeful that since caves south of Kentucky are a few degrees warmer than those in the Northeast, that the spread of WNS would be slower. I am afraid that if WNS doesn't show up in TAG this year, that the state and federal agencies will all pat themselves on the back and further state that cave closures have indeed helped slow the spread, when in actuality cave temp changes were the causative agent.

[bronzzhorse]

And I will tell you what else worries me as well. Scientific research has shown that WNS thrives in damp, cold caves and mines. Scientists have been hopeful that since caves south of Kentucky are a few degrees warmer than those in the Northeast, that the spread of WNS would be slower. I am afraid that if WNS doesn't show up in TAG this year, that the state and federal agencies will all pat themselves on the back and further state that cave closures have indeed helped slow the spread, when in actuality cave temp changes were the causative agent.

Well said... I too am concerned that state and federal groups will collectively believe it to be their "victory over WNS", when in fact it was nothing more than the temp. difference. No matter how you look at it, this thing is NOT going to go away, and it WILL lead to more cave closures, and as someone stated on another thread, "Once caves are closed, they rarely are re-opened" I am afraid that before it is over with, we as cavers are going to be limited to digging holes in our yard just to get underground.
I dont want to sound like a negative Nancy, but if the USFWS and others feel like they are "controlling" WNS with closures, then we are all in for a rude awakening.

[wyandottecaver]

got my copy of the "Georgia Plan" by email today. For now it's primarily decon and common sense precautions. Once GA becomes a buffer State (WNS is 1 county away from TN) then they default to the USFWS guidance which means no cavers no where, no time. They also plan on encouraging private landowners to close caves too. Oh, by the way, before the caves are closed they would like it if cavers would report any hibernacula and/or they find any WNS locations..........

[Batgirl]

I have copies of both the Area 3 Management Plan as well as GA's Response Plan and frankly they are in conflict with each other. I have called Trina and a few others about this to clarify how both documents coincide with each other. The Area 3 Management Plan recommends closure of all caves and mines on federal and state land within 250 miles of the most recent occurrence of WNS, but GA's Response Plan doesn't seem to recommend closure. To me, this is in direct conflict with the first document that was released so I am confused as to which document takes precedent.

Does anyone know if Tennessee or Alabama are doing the same thing? Has anyone heard?

[cavergirl]

I am confused as to which document takes precedent.

The FWS Area 3 recommendation is merely that- a recommendation. they can only close caves on their own land. State owned land can only be closed by the state.

Does anyone know if Tennessee or Alabama are doing the same thing?

Tennessee has already closed all caves on State Land.

[Batgirl]

I guess my confusion lies with the fact that both documents are supported by GA DNR and GA Wildlife Federation. How can they (State of Georgia) support one document that recommends full closure and then put out another one that says "Nevermind - disregard the previous document?" Seems to me they are not in sync.

I realize that Tennessee has closed all their caves on federal and state land. My question was referring to whether meetings have been held and draft response plans have been submitted to the public for review and comment in Alabama or Tennessee?

[Bill Putnam]

The Area 3 management plan is a federal Fish and Wildlife Service plan for cave management that is being recommended and implemented on federally-owned lands, such as national forests and national parks. It would likely apply, for example, to the caves in Blood Mountain, since that is in a national forest, and to the caves on Lookout Mountain in the Chickamaugua-Chattanooga National Military Park, since that is managed by the National Park Service. The federal government owns about 2% of the approximately 600 known caves in Georgia.

The Georgia WNS plan will apply to caves on state of Georgia lands (i.e. caves at the Pigeon Mountain Wildlife Management Area and Cloudland Canyon State Park). The state owns about 18% of the known caves in Georgia. To the extent that Georgia deviates from the federal guidelines, the feds will probably pressure them to come into line, as they did in Tennessee and other states, and the Georgia DNR will probably cave, as did all the other state agencies, in order to keep those federal dollars coming. I'm not making this up, by the way. That's exactly what the state agency folks in other states have said is happening.

The decision and responsibility for implementing recommendations of the applicable plan rests with the cave owner. The US Forest Service and the US Fish and Wildlife Service have declared their caves east of the Mississippi to be closed until further notice. Each WNS state is developing and implementing its own response plan for state-owned caves. If you are following all this, you can see clearly that there are substantial differences of opinion among the states and between states and the federal government over the appropriate response, especially when it comes to closing or opening caves on a large scale.

In any event, federal and state WNS plans will have no actual force over the 80% of Georgia caves that are privately owned. It makes no difference who supports one plan or the other or both. What matters is who owns the cave. Thanks to the Constitution and the 5th Amendment, the government (state or federal) cannot force a private landowner to close a cave without going to court. Of course, they will undoubtedly try to persuade the owners of some caves to close them according to the plan, but they cannot make the owners do so unless they take them to court.

That being said, the state and federal wildlife folks will probably urge private cave owners to close their caves preemptively, as they have done in other states. That may have little or no effect, since most cave owners have never heard of WNS and probably won't get the message. On the other hand, some owners are probably just looking for an excuse to say "no" to cavers because they are tired of being bothered, so this may give them a handy excuse. I doubt that the DNR will have much trouble convincing most cave owners to close their caves if they ask them to.

It's worth noting, however, that there are only a handful of significant bat roost caves in Georgia. I believe they are all already under various forms of protection and have already been closed.