Montana cave closed----WNS.....nobody concerned????

[Rick Brinkman]

So....Mystery Cave has been closed due to the fear that cavers could transmit WNS to the native bat population.

NOBODY else in the west finds this disturbing????? A WEST U.S. cave has been closed for a Northeastern bat fungus.... A fungus that has not been proven/or even "kind of shown" to BE transmitted by cavers.

???????????

And we have SO MANY cavers from the northeastern US to warrant a closure????????



Just wondering.........no one is concerned?????

[graveleye]

welcome to our world, Rick. It's not been seen in TAG either but the caves on gov't land in Tn are closed, and I imagine the ones in Ga and Al will be too before we know it.

[wyandottecaver]

Actually it looks like this is a quasi commercial cave with a bat population? run by the State in a seasonally cold area. Its closure is actually probably somewhat reasonable. If Montana has not restricted other wild caving they are probably the most progressive agency I have seen on WNS so far. Most places have closed low risk areas like run of the mill wild caves with low traffic..mostly local or regional and no bats while leaving commercial caves that get high traffic from across the world open. Of course Im sure the State of Montana gets their millions+ dollar allowance from the USFWS too and you dont wanna upset your sugar daddy.

[caverdan]

The Orient Mine here in Colorado has been closed to visitation by it's owners for concerns of WNS and it's bat population. No one seems to be upset about it around here.

[Evan G]

Actually it looks like this is a quasi commercial cave with a bat population? run by the State in a seasonally cold area. Its closure is actually probably somewhat reasonable. If Montana has not restricted other wild caving they are probably the most progressive agency I have seen on WNS so far. Most places have closed low risk areas like run of the mill wild caves with low traffic..mostly local or regional and no bats while leaving commercial caves that get high traffic from across the world open. Of course Im sure the State of Montana gets their millions+ dollar allowance from the USFWS too and you dont wanna upset your sugar daddy.

Actually it looks like this is a quasi commercial cave with a bat population? run by the State in a seasonally cold area.

Ahhh...No, it is not. This is a BLM cave which is federal. Mystery cave has been on the edge of closure for years because of the roosting population of Townsend Long-eared bats. This is just the straw that broke the camels back. The likelihood of it reopening is never.

If Montana has not restricted other wild caving they are probably the most progressive agency I have seen on WNS so far.

The BLM has not seen NWS in the Western states, thus no need for closure. It is not being progressive, it is being reasonable. I have been in direct contact with the BLM/Cody field office on this matter.

This is the west where States have very little to do with the management, conservation, or other of caves. It is mostly federally controlled: Bureau of Land Management (BLM), US Forest Service, and US Park Service. The BLM takes an active role in the management, conservation, or other on its land. The US Forest Service is more of a passive role on its caves. US Park Service unless it is a full on cave park in which they are active participation (aka: Carlsbad, Wind, etc) otherwise the caves are ignored to the point of secretly non-existent.

Of course Im sure the State of Montana gets their millions+ dollar allowance from the USFWS too and you dont wanna upset your sugar daddy.

The bat population and NWS is little importance to the USFWS in the west. The wolf population is a huge topic right now. The wild horse population in the Pryors is more important to USFWS than the Townsend Bat.

[wyandottecaver]

I was under the impression that Mystery cave was part of a state park and that they ran tours in the summer. is this not true?

[Evan G]

I was under the impression that Mystery cave was part of a state park and that they ran tours in the summer. is this not true?

During the early 80's there was an attempt to do just that with Little Ice Cave and Mystery Cave. In Wyoming, Spirit Mountain Caverns was also considered because of it's passed commercialization; Buffalo Bill Cody owned it and it had a Bar and dance hall. The attempt failed and only lasted 2-3 years. Spirit Mt. has been restored to natural state, Little Ice Cave the ice has taken over the railing system and little been done to restore it. Mystery Cave, Joe D. of Billings went in, took all the crap out of there in the early 90's and fixed the gate. The properties were transfer back under the BLM in the nineties according to Joe D. Right now they sit as wild cave status.

According to the BLM people I talked too. Nobody is quite sure "Why?" the field manager in Billings closed Mystery Cave, but the excuse was NWS and the endangered population of roosting Townsend Long-eared Bats. It was not a surprise when it happened, because the environmentalist have been trying to close it for years, sighting the protection of an endangered species.

There are plenty of caves in the area and most of them without bats.

[PYoungbaer]

Fellow Cavers,

I received the following message about Mystery Cave about a month ago from Richard Rhinehart. The only reason we have not posted it on the WNS Closure link is because we have stuck to a policy of only posting formal announcement/closure orders. We do this to avoid inadvertently spreading rumors. However, it seems legit, despite no formal posting that I'm aware of:

Dear Peter:

Here is official confirmation from the Bureau of Land Management office in
Billings, Montana regarding the closure of Mystery Cave in Montana's Pryor
Mountains owing to concerns about White-Nose Syndrome. I still can't find
any official online mention of the closing of the cave, even though I
specifically asked the office if there was such a site. The BLM website does
note that "the BLM's cave management policies do not allow indiscriminate
entrance into Mystery Cave without a BLM guide. It is therefore closed from
November through May. Bureau of Land Management guided tours can be provided
throughout the remainder of the year upon request. Because of the fragile
nature of the cave, a large increase in use could not be sustained without
creating resource damage."

If I can find an online reference to the closure, I'll send it on to you.
This appears to again be an instance of local federal land management
offices interpreting news and information without consultation with other
federal offices.

Richard Rhinehart
NSS 15822F
Denver
________________________________


Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 4:56 PM
Subject: Mystery Cave WNS closure.

Mr. Rhinhart,

There is a significant amount of concern for the health of the sensitive bat
species which are found in Mystery Cave. With the dynamic nature of the WNS
outbreak is it hard to determine what the correct response, if any exists,
that will prevent the spread of the disease to this cave. With a strong
inclination to error on the side of caution to prevent an irreversible
contamination, Mystery Cave has been closed to casual use.

I have not discussed the matter with Glenwood Springs office in regards to
the option of allowing access by parties which have completed
decontamination of all clothing and equipment, or how they are implementing
the restriction. While the concept may be valid, implementation of such a
permitting system is problematic. We may prevent contamination of the cave
a thousand times, but one failure will be a complete failure. Short of
inspecting the clothing and equipment of each person prior to entering the
cave there is no way of preventing possibly contaminated materials from
being taken into the cave. Since the key is generally issued to the leader
of the group, it is often the case that all members of a group do not
travel to Billings. (This is especially the case because the cave is over
100 miles of mostly bad roads from Billings and the travel time is 3 hours
one-way.) Further, there would be no way of preventing additional cavers
from joining a group prior to entering the cave once a decontamination
inspection has been performed.

There is also a possibility that bats may be infected during the migration
cycle, and that the western states will be affected in the same manner that
the West Nile virus was transported by migratory birds, which would make all
human efforts at control moot. There will be no way of knowing if WNS
crosses the Mississippi River this year, until next spring when excessive
bat mortality would become evident in western caves.

Until more is known about the actual routes of transmission of WNS the only
responsible action would seem to be quarantine to prevent further spread.

If you have any questions feel free to respond or call by telephone to the
numbers below. I will be in the field on 7/21 and back in the office on
7/22.

Charles Ward - N.S.S. 16525
Law Enforcement Ranger
Billings Field Office
5001 Southgate Drive
Billings, MT 59101-4669

Office 406-896-5266
Cell 406-698-9854
FAX 406-896-5287
e-mail charles_ward@blm.gov

[wyandottecaver]

Peter,

how many other closures are not posted due to a lack of official announcements?

[tncaver]

Not so long ago, cave gatings were openly posted on many caving forums to attract volunteers. However, once the organizations in charge discovered that "everyone" is not always in favor of these "events", and that some cavers openly protest the gatings
of specific caves, we rarely see these open requests for volunteers on major caving forums any more. These organizations have gone "underground" so to speak. Many cavers have been forced to go "underground" as well it seems.

All these caves being gated concerns me. I openly say this. Some obviously do need gating. Mostly in urban areas. However,
many caves that are very remote and/or have no endangered species are being gated. Why? Because they can I suppose.
Until enough cavers begin to realize that this precedent is not going to stop, and begin to openly protest, I only see it getting
worse. The gating and/or closing of all government owned caves, regardless of whether there are bats or other "special"
features is disturbing to say the least. Most caves do not have rare species or other special features, yet ALL have been
closed on state and federal lands in many states. I think these states should give up the land these caves are on, if they
are not going to manage them in a way that benefits the public. After all, it is our taxes that pay for these caves, yet the
public is being kicked out. Gating or restricting them ALL is MISMANAGEMENT. Basically, no management plan whatsoever.

[ArCaver]

Gating or restricting them ALL is MISMANAGEMENT. Basically, no management plan whatsoever.

Bingo! That's the idea. If you restrict access to those chosen few willing to play politics then little if any effort goes into management. Many cavers have played this game in the past to feel "entitled". It seems to be on the verge of backfire.

[onebat]

Ok, so caves are being gated due to the fear of WNS, also due to the fear that cavers might track WNS in to the cave by visitation. So what happens when, for some reason, WNS is no longer a threat, or research proves that cavers do not spread WNS? Are they going to UN-gate all of the caves that were gated? We will be left with hundreds of gated caves all over the country, that cavers no longer have access to, and probably never will. Then what?

[tncaver]

Very legitimate questions onebat.

[ArCaver]

Ok, so caves are being gated due to the fear of WNS, also due to the fear that cavers might track WNS in to the cave by visitation. So what happens when, for some reason, WNS is no longer a threat, or research proves that cavers do not spread WNS? Are they going to UN-gate all of the caves that were gated?

Doubt it.

We will be left with hundreds of gated caves all over the country, that cavers no longer have access to, and probably never will. Then what?

We'll be able to visit the new NSS museum and remember what we lost while everyone was in a pissing contest over where to build the new NSS museum.

[boogercaver71]

I can't find either by official announcement or on the NPS/Buffalo River(AR) web page that Fitton and all of the Buffalo River Caves have been closed, even though I know they have. I must note here that I understand this decision was made by a higher up in DC, not by the local officials