Growing Opposition to WNS Closures

[ohiocaver]

Feel free to publish, protest, pillory or plagiarize:

13 REASONS WHY
I DON’T SUPPORT WNS CLOSINGS
(AND WHAT I’D DO ABOUT WNS)

By Curt Harler
NSS 22735RL
Cleveland Grotto
Given the current state of knowledge, I strongly oppose the knee-jerk reaction of the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and its request to close caves in 17 states. By the time you read this, the May 15, 2009 deadline may be past. However, I believe the move is nothing more than a blind, blundering, bombastic, bureaucratic response to a situation that the best scientific minds in America do not yet understand. It is a shame there are so many me-too groups hopping on the USFWS closure bandwagon. Fortunately, there are cavers and cave owners who are having second thoughts about this ridiculous proposal.
The move to keep cavers out of caves will only narrow options for discovering the cause and a solution to the WNS problem.
Keeping the most knowledgeable single group of people away from the environment they know best is plain silly. The equivalent would be banning cavers from cave accident sites and asking local volunteer fire departments to engage in vertical and other technical cave rescue work. There is a reason cavers rescue cavers. And, if the bats are to have a prayer of being rescued from WNS, active cavers – working under reasonable guidelines and with solid, coordinated direction -- are the bats’ best bet for salvation from the WNS situation. In short, cavers should redouble their visits to caves…and should do so with a purpose.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO
Much of what society knows about caves and cave biota comes from the work of enthusiastic, informed amateur cavers. Having more cavers and better-informed cavers out caving is the answer to the problem. Perhaps these cavers will discover where the “missing” bats have gone. Perhaps some additional ridge walking will turn up hordes of dead bats.
Surely 50 grottoes each sending 10 cavers into caves right now to do the bat equivalent of the Audubon Christmas Bird Count will provide more real knowledge in one weekend about the state of bats than ten year’s worth of data- and resource-hording by an elite group trying to protect their ability to publish in scholarly journals or trying to appear “in control” of the situation.
The results of a wide-ranging, organized Bat Count and Roost Mapping project are far more likely at this point in time to provide tangible results than banning cavers from the environment they know better than anyone else. And the ban is based on the wild, unsupported speculation that cavers somehow are the vector for WNS.
Moreover, USFWS and caver groups must be more reasonable and reasoned on any proposed closures. Yes, close those caves where WNS is known. Even close those where WNS is suspected. Leave the rest open to research and recreation.
Why haven’t researchers asked all NSS members to search their photo files and back newsletters (pre-2007) for any bat photos that might show WNS symptoms? Again, it is the active sport caving community that is going to have that info – not USFWS biologists in Washington. Remember, it was a caver who turned up the earliest photos of WNS in New York.
More than ever, bats need cavers today. They need all cavers to comb their resources and to add to the slender existing body of knowledge on WNS. Sending cavers into caves would answer almost half of my objections below. So, here’s why I don’t support the call for closings:
1- Nobody knows what causes WNS. It could be relative humidity. It could be a fungus. It could be something in the insects the bats are eating outside of caves (a secondary effect of a pesticide, for example). It could be a bat disease caused by malnutrition or severe cold. It could be stress. It could be caused by Nylon caving packs or overalls. It could be fleas or air pollution. We just don’t know.
2- There has never been the slightest indication, anywhere, that any caver’s clothes or equipment transports any WNS causal agent from one cave to another or from one bat to another. Absolutely none.
3- There has never been the slightest indication, anywhere, that any of the gear used by researchers who are actively seeking out WNS in caves and who work with WNS-infected bats got contaminated by anything that causes or transports WNS. It is unthinkable that the biohazard suits worn by researchers have not been tested. If any tested positive, where’s that report? If these researchers – in regular, close proximity to WNS-infected bat caves -- didn’t test positive, then where is the benefit to keeping other people out of caves?
4- In New York State research (the oldest and best we have), solitary bats showed ten times more likelihood to succumb to WNS than social bats like the Indiana bat, which hibernate in clusters. If this is something that is transported from individual to individual, wouldn’t it reason that bats in clusters, simply by proximity to one another, would be more likely to exchange the WNS vector?
5- Assuming that it’s dirt or water (or even moist air) in the cave that harbors the vector, then anything from a bat to a raccoon to a cricket to a barn swallow is likely to transport the problem. We can’t ground those swallows.
6- Since dying bats are most likely found in cave entrances (which cavers pass quickly en route the more interesting nether reaches which the dying bats have abandoned), it would seem more likely that birds or other bats transport the vector than cavers.
7- Closing caves is overkill. There are far more simple, and proven effective, remedies than closures. Veterinarians daily treat disease and go from farm to farm (and even from farm building to farm building). Yet they take simple precautions to prevent spread of known, contagious diseases and those procedures work. Boot washing, glove changing, etc. are standard procedure at environmentally sensitive places like the Galapagos or Antarctica where the threat of disease movement by humans is undetermined but possible (as in this situation). If vets don’t move disease around the small confines of a dairy barn or from one hog facility to another, then why should we expect cavers who use basic sanitation to move disease?
8- There is no proof that WNS did not exist long before researchers first noticed it a couple of years ago.
9- There is no proof that WNS is confined to an area expanding out of Albany or down the Appalachians. In fact, there are indicators that WNS exists in Europe and other distant locations.
10- Does anyone have any evidence that people in caves gather and transport WNS fungus? The answer is “no.” If it is found to be transported by bats themselves, would USFWS suggest that we kill all bats in infected caves to prevent the spread of WNS? I think not.
11- Where are all the dead bats? Surely if tens of thousands of bats are dying, their little carcasses must be somewhere.
12- The idea that cavers only wear clothes that have never been in caves in WNS states (including helmets!) is something so preposterous it could have been suggested only by a bureaucrat on crack or the regional sales manager for some gear vendor. In fact, I believe that gear vendors have more practical caving experience than to suggest even such a ludicrous idea.
13- Lastly, it is more effective to ask cavers to wash and bleach clothing than it is to ask them to avoid caves. Those who would do the one surely would do the other. Washing clothes and boots is reasonable. The rest is simply bombastic overkill.

NSS says it believes its 12,000 members must “continue to lead, providing our expertise and resources in collaborating with the federal and state wildlife officials, scientific researchers, cave conservancies, and other non-governmental organizations who are working on WNS.” That call to “lead” does not mean ignoring basic facts nor does it indicate this is a time for running around, willy-nilly, closing caves. Such a move is akin to hearing that some people were hit by automobiles and banning drivers from all vehicles. In fact, it’s worse: Bad drivers do cause accidents but nobody has shown even any casual causal link between bat deaths and cavers. Even the best science has nothing more than a suspicion that, well, maybe…
Folks, that’s Dick Cheney “science,” not real science.
I do, however, support NSS’s spending of an additional $10,000 of our dues and contribution money for the WNS Rapid Response Fund. Previously, the NSS has raised and expended nearly $30,000. Maybe the money will give us some concrete information to work on.
Keeping cavers out of caves will not advance our WNS knowledge. Let’s forget this USFWS closure nonsense and get cavers to work in caves. Everyone – bats, the scientific community, cavers, and USFWS -- will benefit.

[BrianC]

WoW Curt! You hit on more points than even I could think of! But you did reveal the truth to all who choose to read your post, and more important will all the agencies including our beloved NSS absorb this info and utilize it to work this thing out? Good post!

[Bob Thrun]

There is a simple solution available to cavers. Go caving only in caves that already have been infected, Do not take a caving trip to Alabama or Georgia. Do not go looking for new caves. This occurred to me after WNS was found in Hamilton Cave, but I did not say anything until after the general closure.

I put this idea out in a local group and got two replies. "It's the right solution, but it won't fly." and "Too bad that it is politically unacceptable."

[batrotter]

"Folks, that’s Dick Cheney “science,” not real science."


I agree with all your comments. It's makes very good sense.
But why must you knock Dick Cheney?
With this simple statement I wonder where you are coming from?
Is Dick Cheney an environmentalist whacko?

Geez, Bush and Cheney are out of office. Get over it.

[John Chenger]

Bob is likely correct. In "x" amount of time....all caves in a given county/region will be "infected" with WNS. Considering that "bat friendly" caves really make up just a small fraction of the total # of caves out there, it really shouldn't take long to make any containment attempt for a "contaminated" area completely useless and everyone in that area is back to business as usual unless traveling out of the region.

I find Curt's post uninformed, arrogant, unhelpful, partially wrong in most places, and just dead wrong in the rest. Sorry and it is way too long to even attempt to help you with some of the points. I understand the PGC/PA Forestry/Mid Atlantic Karst Conservancy is having a public meeting on WNS soon in Latrobe, PA. A bit of a haul from OH some would find it enlightening. Here is the pre- announcement announcement below and their website is http://www.karst.org/

The MAKC will be hosting a program on WNS, with Greg Turner of the PGC
and Aura Stauffer of the DNR at 7 p.m. Thursday, April 30, at Saint
Vincent College in Latrobe. I'm trying to shore up a committment to
have it at the Winnie Palmer Nature Reserve barn, but there is a dinner
request for another group to have use of the barn. That may just be the
upper floor, so we can get the ground floor, which is more conducive to
a program anyway. I will post a full-scale press release on it as soon
as I have the location confirmed.
Aura will be talking about the research they have been doing at Barton
Cave, as well as possible closures of Coon Cave and Lemon Hole. As it
stands now, the MAKC board meets in early May. We are encouraging our
board members who live locally to come so that they can make a
fully-informed decision on "opening" our caves for the year. Right now
we are not going to open Bear Cave or the Trout Run Woods Preserve
until we can hear the presentation and discuss it at our meeting. So,
those of you with plans to go caving locally, please check with the
individual preserve managers before planning a trip. We will post info
on our website; however, I am having computer problems and as the
interim webmaster, that's tough to do when the design program keeps
crashing.
The program is designed have them give a presentation, and then allow
an ample time for questions and answers
from the caving community. Greg
and Aura are fully involved with research being done as well, including
work with someone from Bucknell University, who, unfortunately, cannot
be there. But Greg and Aura can report on that. I think it's great that
both Greg and Aura want to come and talk to cavers about what it is,
what we can do and be open about the situation in general in
Pennsylvania. The date and time are firmed up, so mark your calendars
now. I will just let you know about the location at a later date,
hopefully in the next few days.
Kim

[wyandottecaver]

John,

the problem with your statement is it is also just wrong. No offense. The core areas of the WNS outbreak reached the situation you describe some time ago...i.e. most of the bat friendly caves are infected. Caving has NOT returned to normal. Now that the USFWS bulldozer approach instructs people to stay out of ALL caves indefinately and explicitly tells the actual owners of those caves they should close them, this situation will only get worse. Indeed, once Forest Service, and other Federal Properties along with State owned areas start officially closing caves the time frame for them to reopen, WNS or not...living bats or not....isn't likely to be very soon. As long as someone somewhere in the command chain is risk averse or just wants to keep them closed...they will STAY that way. Been there done that from both sides of the fence.

BTW, while I also find several of curts comments to be a little off base...at least he isn't living in the dreamworld the USFWS envisions where we shouldn't enter a crawling stream cave that regularly floods to the ceiling because there might be bats hidden in the cracks we could give WNS too. Yet... Mammoth Cave, OWNED by the Federal Government, sitting inside the advisory zone, seeing nearly 1 million visitors a year from all over the globe, and hosting a diverse population of bats including endangered Indianas....is somehow immune to WNS because the government collects cash there. Never mind that the first recorded instance of WNS was in.....a commercial cave.

Why is there opposition to the closures? because the USFWS refuses to use logic or even to follow their own advice. WNS researchers (most of whom are NOT cavers) are somehow incapable of spreading WNS (probably because they handle infected bats bare handed) but professional researchers who are not in the WNS "club" who have spent whole careers in caves are too big a risk because they obviously can't read the decon protocols... LIttle piss ant caves in the middle of nowhere are WNS timebombs waiting to explode so stay out... but major hibernacula with 1 million visitors a year...thats somehow OK....

We have a phrase for actions like that..." they're smokin crack"

Todd

[John Chenger]

Eh, I'd take issue that "every" core area is affected (unless you are in the "containment has failed" camp, but the data doesn't show that quite yet) ....taking a look at the map it is obvious we don't have any WNS sites east of the Allegheny Front. This is a big geographical barrier that is slowing down the WNS spread naturally. Much like the Catskills -should- have been a barrier longer than it was. Everyone is smarter now. (for those catching up: NY spread before anyone knew anything about decon)

In PA we have huge hiber mines in Scranton/Wilkes Barre...those are lost. I can't write anything more about "how" WNS got into that area right now but you're welcome to call me.

The Ridge/Valley section of PA has smallish bat caves, but WNS is there with Alexander Caverns looking like the starting point.

Nice thing about all the migration telemetry I've been involved with over the last 10 years is that we do seem to have the NJ bats mingling with the Hudson River Valley NY bats, the Scranton bats were dispersing down the rivers and into SE PA, and the central PA bats are dispersing into south central PA. Jumping over the AF you encounter some respectable cave populations just SE of Pittsburgh, then the mega-motherlode of bat mines north of Pittsburgh. Those north site Pittsburgh bats seem to disperse SW down the Ohio River Valley, and we have one band recovery of a summer bat SW of Pittsburgh that unbelievably was found the next winter in a cave just south of Elkins, WV (still W of the AF).

So what little is known it does seem the AF is a bit of a E-W barrier for cave bats. If there is anything that can be done to -slow- the spread of WNS in the near future the NSS should be all for it. Maybe a "cure" can be found meanwhile. As soon as WNS is detected in western PA, it will naturally run to Missouri in a few seasons. Like Bob's point earlier, sooner or later entire regions will be clearly affected and there is probably little use for a summer closure of most caves in PA and north. I'm with you on the whole commercial cave issue...BCI had to cancel 2 workshops in the Mammoth area this summer, regardless of whatever decon was put in place. On the other hand I know of at least 2 commercial caves with WNS, one of them has a pretty significant bat population (well, this year at least). Oh and commercial caves are just the tip of the iceberg of sleeper issues...some of of the mega mines near Pittsburgh have tens of thousands of wintering bats that are also active storage facilities, active mines (yes active), and farming operations. Does anyone know if the WNS on your mushrooms in your next salad are safe to eat? Quite frankly the arrogance of some in the NSS whining about the "inconvenience" of washing your clothes before taking it on a trip 300 miles away is awfully tiresome. NY is saying the spores seem to die around 100°F....so possibly hot water and the hot air in your dryer might be all it takes to decon....but that's assuming you were careful enough coming out of the cave to not contaminate the entire inside of your car. (and BTW changing clothes inside the cave does defeat the purpose of deconning...yes, this was going on in a WNS cave for some time.)

Mammoth is not a major hibernacula anymore, but it certainly gets a share of bat traffic in the fall. Quite a few commercial caves are looking to incorporate footbaths upon exiting so that at least there is some attempt to reduce WNS traffic outbound from a site on your feet. Making people change clothes upon arrival seems extremely unlikely, I don't see anything else possible for inbound traffic. Maybe everyone will be issued a Tyvek jumpsuit before the next tour. Wouldn't the little school groups look cute in miniature matching Tyvek?

[Bill Putnam]

13- Lastly, it is more effective to ask cavers to wash and bleach clothing than it is to ask them to avoid caves. Those who would do the one surely would do the other. Washing clothes and boots is reasonable.

My thoughts exactly.

[icave]

Just a reminder to all, do not confuse WNF with the fungus until the two have been proven cause and effect. The "decon" procedure all focus around decon from the fungus, which has still not been proven to be "the cause" of WNS. I'm in no way saying that this fungus may not be the one and only cause, just please stop putting the cart before the horse.

Mike Spencer

[ArCaver]

Eh, I'd take issue that "every" core area is affected (unless you are in the "containment has failed" camp, but the data doesn't show that quite yet) ....taking a look at the map it is obvious we don't have any WNS sites east of the Allegheny Front. This is a big geographical barrier that is slowing down the WNS spread naturally. Much like the Catskills -should- have been a barrier longer than it was. Everyone is smarter now. (for those catching up: NY spread before anyone knew anything about decon)

If cavers are spreading the spore how could geographical barriers come into play?

In PA we have huge hiber mines in Scranton/Wilkes Barre...those are lost. I can't write anything more about "how" WNS got into that area right now but you're welcome to call me.

Sounds like a secret. I guess there's a good reason to keep this secret, or at least someone thinks so, but it would be interesting to know.

[John Chenger]

If cavers are spreading the spore how could geographical barriers come into play?

If people can spread it, reducing long distance trips and carefully deconning/containing your gear upon exiting the previous cave in theory would minimize the large geographical leaps of WNS.

The cave bats don't seem to cross the AF on a regular basis. Besides the little bit of direct tracking work that has been observed that I previously summarized, distinctive separate populations are apparent with some of the DNA work done over the years with IBATS in NY, WV, and the midwest.

Therefore if human assisted leaps are eliminated, and WNS spread slows,maybe that buys some time someone can come up with a solution and "save" the mid-western states. There will never be a solution in time to save the eastern states. This is the reality.



I don't have many secrets, sorry if it seems that way. Anyone is welcome to contact me privately, it's just something not appropriate to be posted anywhere publicly. I am sure you will agree. Everyone has to appreciate WNS is too large like a big cave rescue or military op anymore in that everyone only sees a small part of what's really going on. Those few who see everything going on -do not- frequent Cavechat (beyond Peter and his crew, obviously). That is another reality.

[wyandottecaver]

John,

Sorry I was not clear. By "core" area I meant the Schoharie NY area where WNS "appeared". Not core bat areas of the U.S. Caving has not in any sense returned to normal there and It seems unlikely too in the near future. I would also say that while the bat population at Mammoth isn't on par with the Hibernia mine, it is certainly far larger than most of the caves the USFWS doesn't want people entering.

Also, most of the whining isn't about washing your clothes. Its about never taking those clothes or any of your cave gear anywhere else. lets say you do work in PA for their wildlife folks to do a in cave survey of a bat population then harp trap at the entrance area. Now you got Missouri calling with a job. Per the USFWS you cannot use any stitch of clothing or any piece of gear that you have ever used in PA or any other WNS state...ever. Decon or not. If you then take your new gear BACK to PA and use it there...it cant leave either. gets a bit pricey huh? Of course, since BCM is a supplier of bat research gear you might be able to start wintering in Hawaii