Fungus serious threat to North American bats

[tncaver]

because man has practically no ability to change climate.

Not to hijack this discussion, but the overwhelming consensus of climate scientists (also see this) would beg to differ.

Well, I see your point Ron. Man might be able to change climate very, very, gradually but not in one year. The rising of
temperatures has corresponded graphically to the industrial age of the past 100 years. So, I guess it is conceivably
possible that man can change climate for the better in the next 100 years. Not sure that will help the current bat
population any though.

[boogercaver71]

Since we are giving out links here, I'll throw out this one, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... e9swvOqwIY
I have a degree in geology, and I always take what scientists say as "truth" with a grain of salt. The mean global temp has decreased by 0.8 deg F with the last 12 months, and thats why Owlgore has switched from "global warming" to "climate crisis",

[tncaver]

Since we are giving out links here, I'll throw out this one, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... e9swvOqwIY
I have a degree in geology, and I always take what scientists say as "truth" with a grain of salt. The mean global temp has decreased by 0.8 deg F with the last 12 months, and thats why Owlgore has switched from "global warming" to "climate crisis",

Personally, I think climate change is the more appropriate terminology for what's going on these days. Sometimes it is hotter
than normal and sometimes it is colder than normal. This is especially true day to night. These temperature extremes depict weather that is more common to desert terrain. Scientists blame carbon dioxide buildup. I won't argue that point one way or the other. However, the continuous cutting of the forests all over the planet is one possible cause for these weather changes. Once trees are all gone, the terrain may resemble that of a desert more than a forest. Trees not only hold the soil, but they also provide shade in the summer which keeps the soils from getting too hot and dry. A lack of trees does not prevent this
and may allow for climate change in a localized area such as an entire state. This may affect the ozone layer due to radiational heat that is reflected back into the atmosphere from areas that have been striped of trees. All this of course can affect animal life such as BATS, penquins, whales and who knows what all else. So, although you may think I strayed off course from the bat topic, I actually have not.

I hope the biologists will continue to post on this forum to keep us up to par on their findings regardless of what they are.

[dfcaver]

Always interesting to have the climate change thoughts out there - don't forget the big ball of gas in the sky, and it's almost complete lack of sunspots since WNS has been impacting the NE.

The dutch elm thought was enlightening, however. I would hope that the possibility of an invasive species in the Albany area has been considered along with chemicals, cell phone towers and other options. If an invasive species dropped a bacteria among the bats of the Albany area, to which our population has no immunity, it would look a lot like this spread.

Mad cow typically is spread by feeding brain and spinal fluids of diseased cows to other cows. Yuck. WNS reminds me more of hoof and mouth disease in Britain a couple years back.

I wonder how many WNS sites lie between Mifflin County in PA and Pendleton County WV.

[dfcaver]

The jump to WV from central PA may not be that incredible. Last year, Barton Cave in Fayette County was mentioned several times as have signs of WNS, but no dead bats.

"We found fungus on bats' ears and wings - similar to that on bats afflicted with WNS in Vermont and New York - at sites in Fayette, Luzerne and Blair counties," said Turner. "One of the sites, Hartman Mine, at Canoe Creek State Park in Blair County, is the state's largest hibernaculum for Indiana bats, a federally endangered species. (Here http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?Q=174142&A=11&pp=12&n=1 for the rest of the story)

[John Chenger]

Barton Cave does not have WNS as of this writing...that was debunked last year. The Allegheny Front in PA/WV is the "WNS front" as of this writing.

Keep in mind not only might it take years for a "human assisted" WNS to start growing on bats at a site, then on top of that it may be a couple of years before anyone actually notices WNS at a site, due to lack of visitation, lack of bat surveys, lack of many bats at a site to begin with, lack of people visiting the site when bats would be there anyway, and probably a couple of other factors. A few posts back someone mentioned the gated sites or mine sites prove WNS is only moving bat-to-bat and people have no influence. This is flat wrong, as a case can rather easily built that at each PA and WV site to allow for "human assisted" influences. The point is, just because Shindle Iron mine has WNS, it's not necessarily the ONLY site in Mifflin County, we are looking at just one piece of the WNS spread puzzle.

[Teresa]

Keep in mind not only might it take years for a "human assisted" WNS to start growing on bats at a site, then on top of that it may be a couple of years before anyone actually notices WNS at a site, due to lack of visitation, lack of bat surveys, lack of many bats at a site to begin with, lack of people visiting the site when bats would be there anyway, and probably a couple of other factors. A few posts back someone mentioned the gated sites or mine sites prove WNS is only moving bat-to-bat and people have no influence. This is flat wrong, as a case can rather easily built that at each PA and WV site to allow for "human assisted" influences.

As a case in logic, though, and assuming that WNS is all of one variety of fungus, it would be logically impossible to prove that WNS is distributed by humans, unless all bats were banded, and all banded bat movement were tracked, and no non-banded bats were found at site which became infected; concurrently with all human movement into/out of the cave being tracked, along with logs of caves which those humans had visited for X years into the past, the decontam records of those cavers and records of WNS in those caves.

That's a lot of variables to record in order to definitively prove that humans personally spread WNS. "Building a case" without them would only indicate level of possibility, not certainty. I'm personally skeptical that cavers are a major vector, given that caving has been somewhat popular in the Northeast for at least 60 years, WNS is first going critical mass now, people or their gear show no evidence of being personally affected, and most cavers don't touch or physically disturb the bats or the bats' nearby surroundings.

Now this is not to say that some human environmental alteration isn't responsible...I just don't subscribe to the "cavers cause it syndrome." Cavers, of all people, should recognize the vector of many fungal infections (think histoplasmosis) is such that it preys on the stressed and immune-compromised at a much higher rate than the healthy and hale. If the bats are stressed and immune compromised they likely fall victim to WNS at a much greater rate than usual. Such is proving the case with colony collapse syndrome-- bees which are under stress are falling victim at higher rates than healthy unstressed hives.

[Anonymous_Coward]

A few posts back someone mentioned the gated sites or mine sites prove WNS is only moving bat-to-bat and people have no influence. This is flat wrong, as a case can rather easily built that at each PA and WV site to allow for "human assisted" influences.

If you are referring to the statements that I made, you have misinterpreted my meaning. I was playing devil's advocate by reminding everyone that this "human assisted" disease has been recorded in places that are off-limits to cavers and have been for years.

I was actually taking a slight stab at biologists there by pointing out that WNS has shown up in mines that are ONLY visited by bat counters. But of course we are just splitting hairs at this point. I was only suggesting that in some cases, cavers that routinely avoid hibernating bats are being told not to go caving by another group that routinely disturbs hibernating bats. (With the best of intentions of course!)

[dfcaver]

Barton Cave does not have WNS as of this writing...that was debunked last year. The Allegheny Front in PA/WV is the "WNS front" as of this writing.

Keep in mind not only might it take years for a "human assisted" WNS to start growing on bats at a site, then on top of that it may be a couple of years before anyone actually notices WNS at a site, due to lack of visitation, lack of bat surveys, lack of many bats at a site to begin with, lack of people visiting the site when bats would be there anyway, and probably a couple of other factors. A few posts back someone mentioned the gated sites or mine sites prove WNS is only moving bat-to-bat and people have no influence. This is flat wrong, as a case can rather easily built that at each PA and WV site to allow for "human assisted" influences. The point is, just because Shindle Iron mine has WNS, it's not necessarily the ONLY site in Mifflin County, we are looking at just one piece of the WNS spread puzzle.

And here is part of the puzzle that the caving community at large does not have. I'm interested in the "easily built" case for Shindle Mine, as my understanding is that there has been no human visitation to Shindle since prior to WNS emergence in NY. What human influence, apart from the researchers going this winter has there been in the recent past? "It's not necessarily the ONLY site in Mifflin County" - what are the others? We understand the "offical" map is just press releases from the PGC and other offical sources. Is there a map showing known outbreaks that are not lab confirmed? Are would these show additional sites in Mifflin county, and other counties as well? The Allegheny front is not near Mifflin County, but Blair, Bedford, Somerset, Cambria, Centre as so on to the northeast. Mifflin lies squarely in the Ridge and Valley section of PA. Are there known sites on the Allegheny Front, which extends in WV?

[Ernie Coffman]

Hopefully, this article in the newspaper, this a.m., has a positive influence on the fungus situation in W. Virginia.
http://www.dailymail.com/News/200902220280

[PYoungbaer]

The Charleston Gazette article does contain some good news - and some out of date news. When I saw the article this morning, I contacted Craig Stihler, WVDNR. He indicated the Gazette article was based on an interview on Thursday. Friday morning, the National Wildlife Health Center laboratory did confirm the Geomyces fungus was present in the bats taken from the Pendleton County caves. Those caves also showed all the other indicators of WNS.

However, several other caves were found to be clean, as mentioned in the article. Craig said the major hibernaculum not mentioned by name was Schoolhouse Cave. He also said that a previously scheduled bat survey for Hellhole has been called off, in an attempt to help prevent the spread of WNS. He indicated instead they will monitor the entrance for signs of WNS.

WVDNR is issuing a new press release today, so look for another Gazette article tomorrow or shortly thereafter.

Peter Youngbaer
NSS 16161
WNS Liaison

[Ernie Coffman]

Thanks for the update, Peter. Sorry that the article was a little out-of-date, but that's the news for you. That's too bad about Schoolhouse, in a way, for that's such a popular cave. Glad to learn that Hellhole is going to put off doing a survey there.

[PYoungbaer]

Ernie,

I obviously wasn't clear: Schoolhouse is clean.

Peter

[cavergirl]

.

As a case in logic, though, and assuming that WNS is all of one variety of fungus, it would be logically impossible to prove that WNS is distributed by humans, unless all bats were banded ...

Not logically impossible, in an experimental setting, though setting it up would take time and money.

You would create 3 artificial “caves” ( I.e. cold rooms) that are thoroughly sterilized prior to the experiment. Then capture healthy bats from an area far away from the affected area and put them in the three “caves”.

One “cave” would be the “Control” group- it has its own set of personnel who clean the cage.

A second “cave” would be to study Bat-to-bat transmission. WNS infected bats would be introduced into the cave with the healthy bats. Researchers and "animal care personnel" would not handle the bats or would wear PPE and would disinfect themselves before entering and when leaving.

The third cave would contain only healthy bats, but people would handle the sick bats ( in another cage), then go into the third room without washing their hands. (or “contaminate” inanimate objects with the fungus and bring these objects in.)

[PYoungbaer]

cavergirl,

During Friday's webinar, we were informed that your second scenario, which was the subject of testing at the National Wildlife Health Center laboratory's bat chamber, did result in healthy bats obtaining the fungus from known affected bats. Thus, hard evidence that one way the fungus is spreading is definitely bat to bat.

Peter Youngbaer
NSS 16161
WNS Liaison