Fungus serious threat to North American bats

[wyandottecaver]

NPR had a blurb with susie von otengen (sp?) with the USFWS who mentioned a confirmed site in Massechusets. Al Hicks is also featured. other reports mention the MA site as a mine near Chester, MA

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 88&sc=emaf

[peter febb]

Bat DieOff And Bee Colony Collapse
White Nose Syndrome in Bats Compared to Honey Bee Disease Outbreak

© Dawn M. Smith

Feb 20, 2008

Agricultural concerns over losses of pollinating bees and insect eating bats. Reasons for both disease outbreaks sought. How does pesticide use figure into the equation?...

http://wildlife-conservation.suite101.c ... y_collapse

[NZcaver]

Deadly White Nose Syndrome spreads through bat caves

(NECN: Stockbridge, Vermont) - White Nose Syndrome has become a major concern for Fish and Wildlife officials in the Northeast region. It is a deadly condition that is spreading through bat populations in, so far, Vermont, Massachusetts and New York. Scientists continue to visit caves and mines in the Northeast looking for signs of the disease. Recently, it was found in Dorset, Vermont, in the largest bat cave in New England. On Monday, researchers set out to test their sixth Vermont cave, in Stockbridge.

White Nose Syndrome is named after the white fungus that forms around the muzzle of many of the infected bats. It first appeared in North America, and quite possibly in the world, last year. To the dismay of biologists, it has caused a massive die off of bats. It has also left scientists scratching their heads - unsure of what causes the condition or how it is spread.

Full story and video clip here

[wyandottecaver]

The USFWS has issued a new "notice to cavers" that has a little more detail about what we currently know about WNS. There is also a new list of WV caves that they have asked cavers to avoid to prevent the possible spread of WNS. Many have already been closed by their owners in response to requests from the USFWS.

Also, a major WNS presentation was given at a major bat biologist meeting and a powerpoint presentation is being developed for release. some bat biology forums are reporting that more evidence is pointing to the fungus as being secondary since many affected bats don't show the fungus. pnuemonia and hemoraging of the lungs has been noted in some specimens. They also say one current THEORY is that bats may contract a pathogen in the summer/fall, fight it off and thus remove traces of the active pathogen, but burn up so much fat reserves doing so that they then succumb before spring.

currently it seems that nearly 100% of bats in affected caves succumb by year 2.

[adleedy]

The USFWS has issued a new "notice to cavers" that has a little more detail about what we currently know about WNS. There is also a new list of WV caves that they have asked cavers to avoid to prevent the possible spread of WNS. Many have already been closed by their owners in response to requests from the USFWS.

Also, a major WNS presentation was given at a major bat biologist meeting and a powerpoint presentation is being developed for release. some bat biology forums are reporting that more evidence is pointing to the fungus as being secondary since many affected bats don't show the fungus. pnuemonia and hemoraging of the lungs has been noted in some specimens. They also say one current THEORY is that bats may contract a pathogen in the summer/fall, fight it off and thus remove traces of the active pathogen, but burn up so much fat reserves doing so that they then succumb before spring.

currently it seems that nearly 100% of bats in affected caves succumb by year 2.

I STRONGLY oppose this list right now, For one i noticed a couple mistakes regarding the caves themselves, Also some of the caves on the list are not significant bat caves....WHY CLOSE THEM? To issue a poorly made list can severely alter the publics thinking on WNS. I VERY STRONGLY disagree with the USFWS going around and asking cave owners if they would like to close their cave due to WNS, when their cave is not a significant bat cave. WHY CLOSE CAVES WE DONT HAVE TOO!, frankly i believe everyone is going overboard on this...FACE IT IT ISNT BEING SPREAD BY CAVERS or we would have allready seen it in alot more caves.

[John Lovaas]

I VERY STRONGLY disagree with the USFWS going around and asking cave owners if they would like to close their cave due to WNS, when their cave is not a significant bat cave.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you define "significant" versus "not significant" bat caves? I presume you know the bat count totals for the caves in question, so I'd be interested where you draw the line.

FACE IT IT ISNT BEING SPREAD BY CAVERS or we would have allready seen it in alot more caves.

Just curious- where did you get that information? In what little research has been done on this issue to date, I'm unaware of any studies that back up your statement.

[VACaver]

The USFWS has issued a new "notice to cavers" that has a little more detail about what we currently know about WNS. There is also a new list of WV caves that they have asked cavers to avoid to prevent the possible spread of WNS. Many have already been closed by their owners in response to requests from the USFWS.

Also, a major WNS presentation was given at a major bat biologist meeting and a powerpoint presentation is being developed for release. some bat biology forums are reporting that more evidence is pointing to the fungus as being secondary since many affected bats don't show the fungus. pnuemonia and hemoraging of the lungs has been noted in some specimens. They also say one current THEORY is that bats may contract a pathogen in the summer/fall, fight it off and thus remove traces of the active pathogen, but burn up so much fat reserves doing so that they then succumb before spring.

currently it seems that nearly 100% of bats in affected caves succumb by year 2.

I STRONGLY oppose this list right now, For one i noticed a couple mistakes regarding the caves themselves, Also some of the caves on the list are not significant bat caves....WHY CLOSE THEM? To issue a poorly made list can severely alter the publics thinking on WNS. I VERY STRONGLY disagree with the USFWS going around and asking cave owners if they would like to close their cave due to WNS, when their cave is not a significant bat cave. WHY CLOSE CAVES WE DONT HAVE TOO!, frankly i believe everyone is going overboard on this...FACE IT IT ISNT BEING SPREAD BY CAVERS or we would have allready seen it in alot more caves.

I applaud you for saying what many people are thinking, but don't have the courage to say.

Now, I'll grab some popcorn...this is gonna get interesting.

[MUD]

I'll second that applaud leedy! Most cavers I've talked to are tired of hearin about it. They may not admit it publicly but they're still cavin...just not talkin about or publishin trip reports. I've not changed my cavin habits any. All the caves at home with any number of hibernatin bats are gated and not entered at that time of the year anyway. 98% of the time I cave in a very small area of central PA so I'm not overly concerned about it at this point. Butt....I do keep my eyes on the news of this thing. Unless one of the landowners tells me not to cave, I'm still goin'. So who's up for a trip?

VA Caver....I'll have some of that popcorn with ya!

[adleedy]

I VERY STRONGLY disagree with the USFWS going around and asking cave owners if they would like to close their cave due to WNS, when their cave is not a significant bat cave.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you define "significant" versus "not significant" bat caves? I presume you know the bat count totals for the caves in question, so I'd be interested where you draw the line.

FACE IT IT ISNT BEING SPREAD BY CAVERS or we would have allready seen it in alot more caves.

Just curious- where did you get that information? In what little research has been done on this issue to date, I'm unaware of any studies that back up your statement.

I was in dreen cave last weekend, one of the caves on the list, In all we seen about 5-15 bats in the cave. I would certainly not call this significant. Falling springs cave another one on the list is not known (to my knowledge) to house large "significant" numbers of bats.

What information do we have that this is being spread by cavers? What makes us think all these bats are dying, Where are the bodys? If this was being spread by cavers im certain the problem would be alot more widespread. Even if this is killing the bats, i still dont believe it is being spread by cavers.

Im positive cavers from new york have come to wv and va and other parts of the country, so why arent we seeing WNS elsewhere. If cavers are spreading this we would see WNS all over the place.

[hewhocaves]

I have some concerns with the list as well, particularly the farther south you get. I understand the special case that is Pendleton county - the concentration of 2 endangered species within a small number of caves warrants closure of those caves for a short time as a precautionary move until we understand the agents a little better. But the slippery slope that this has become is getting a little ridiculous.

Consider - we close these caves in WV because of the possible cross-polination between northeastern cavers and west virginia caves. however, northeastern cavers also cave in TAG. Why aren't we closing caves left and right in that region? Furthermore, this is all being done after the fact - in fact more than a YEAR after the fact. So we've given whatever agents are there a year to take hold and spread. Consequently, we should consider anyone who has been to these caves as possible potential candidates for transmitting the disease. Not only do WV cavers cave out of the state - to the south and west, but frequently cavers from Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, etc... cave in WV. Should we now close all the caves in those states?

The "kicker" to all this is that almost nothing is heard about closing caves in Pennsylvania - a state which lies BETWEEN WV and NY and which has cross-pollination from both regions. how does THAT happen?

The net result of this is, IMHO, to strain the good relations between bat people and cave people. Cavers are some of the most understanding and conservation-minded people on the planet, but our patience is not unlimited. Considering that in the 'big cave' regions of the country most of the basic information (in terms of exploration, mapping, landowner relations and public outreach) are done 100% by volunteer cavers, I think we have earned a little bit more than simply being ordered around.

If I might use the WV closed list as an example. there is nothing particularly galling about the notice, but it is representative of the communication problem between bat people and cavers. The primary item missing from the table at the bottom is the reason for the closure. Many of these caves aren't obvious bat caves. I'm sure many of us would like to know the criteria used (that should have been part of the notice) to determine the reason for closure. That is to say - how many bats, which species, etc... I would like to see a table somewhere which illustrates the number of bats in these caves regularly over the last several years. I notice that bat counts are done biannualy. Perhaps this information is out there, somewhere. But it should be common practice and good relations to convey this to the caving community. After all, cavers do their part even when its inconvenient. We observe hibernacula rules and help put up bat-friendly gates. The gate swings both ways. Thanks for listening.

John Tudek
WVUSG

[Carl Amundson]

Im positive cavers from new york have come to wv and va and other parts of the country, so why arent we seeing WNS elsewhere. If cavers are spreading this we would see WNS all over the place.

I agree...

WNS has been going on for at least two years (that we know of). In that time numerous cavers have come down from Vermont, New York and across the the northeast to cave in Virginia, West Virginia and TAG. No one has seen WNS in any of these areas.

I'm not saying that we should not be careful and clean our gear between trips (although bleach will come nowhere near my vertical gear or ropes).
But looking at all the data available on where WNS is, it seems VERY unlikely that it is being spread by cavers.

[Scott McCrea]

The War on Terror WNS. By limiting shampoo quantities on airplanes closing caves, the threat of terrorism WNS may be reduced. By x-raying shoes at airports sanitizing cave gear, the threat of terrorism WNS may be reduced. Stay the course.

[ron_miller]

What information do we have that this is being spread by cavers? What makes us think all these bats are dying, Where are the bodys? If this was being spread by cavers im certain the problem would be alot more widespread. Even if this is killing the bats, i still dont believe it is being spread by cavers.

Im positive cavers from new york have come to wv and va and other parts of the country, so why arent we seeing WNS elsewhere. If cavers are spreading this we would see WNS all over the place.

If you had taken the time to carefully read some of the earlier posts and linked documents in this thread, you would already know that first-person reports have noted large accumulations of bat bodies in affected caves. The most recent update from the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which you can read here, lays out very nicely what is known and unknown, as well as the potential ramifications of this issue. I encourage you and everyone following this issue to read this document carefully. Many other important documents on this issue are posted on this page, which I encourage you to bookmark and check periodically.

However, since you don't seem to be willing to do the research yourself, let me lay out , as clearly and straightforwardly as I can, the current major elements of this issue, based on various sources that I consider to be reliable (you are, of course, free to dispute whether I am a good judge of reliability on this issue - I am not a biologist, let alone a bat biologist. I'm just a geologist and long-time caver.)

- Thousands of bats have died recently in caves and mines in three northeastern states - NY, VT, and MA. This has been demonstrated from lots of bodies, plus drops in bat populations as high as 97% in affected caves. A general (although not universal) commonality appears to be a white fungus around the noses of affected bats.
- This is unusual, and previously unreported.
- No one knows yet what is causing the unusual die-offs.
- The occurrence of die-offs appears to be spreading geographically. In 2007, it was detected in a few locations in eastern NY. In 2008, it was detected in more locations in eastern NY, plus locations in two adjacent states (VT and MA).
- No one knows yet what is causing the apparent geographic spread of this problem.
- Human visitation of caves cannot yet be ruled out as a possible vector that could potentially contribute to the spread of this problem.
- The urgency of this problem has been recognized by state and federal agencies, and several scientists are working very hard to find out why the bats are dying, and how the problem is spreading.
- State and federal agencies are communicating to the caving community, and have asked for their cooperation as they research the problem.

I would suggest that we all look at the issue from an "upside/downside" perspective. Below is a paraphrasing of a very simple analysis that one cave manager I know made recently.

Option 1. Make no changes to cave access in/near the affected areas while scientists are researching the die-offs.
Upside: Cavers get to keep going caving at all their usual spots, and don't need to bother cleaning gear between cave trips.
Downside: Possibility that cavers will inadvertently spread whatever is causing the dieoffs beyond its "natural" progression, thus contributing to major bat die-offs and possible extinction of endangered species.

Option 2. Close caves in/near the affected areas while scientists are researching the die-offs, and ask cavers to take some steps to reduce the possibility of spreading whatever is causing them.
Upside: Possibility of saving tens or hundreds of thousands of bats, and possibly saving one or more endangered species from extinction. Also, cavers show state and federal agencies and the public that they actually care about the ecology of caves.
Downside: Some cavers are temporarily inconvenienced by not being able to do recreational caving in the affected areas, and by having to clean their gear between caves, until such time as the potential for caver contribution to the spread is definitively ruled out.

I'll leave it to each reader to decide which option he or she believes has the better upside/downside ratio.

[adleedy]

What information do we have that this is being spread by cavers? What makes us think all these bats are dying, Where are the bodys? If this was being spread by cavers im certain the problem would be alot more widespread. Even if this is killing the bats, i still dont believe it is being spread by cavers.

Im positive cavers from new york have come to wv and va and other parts of the country, so why arent we seeing WNS elsewhere. If cavers are spreading this we would see WNS all over the place.

If you had taken the time to carefully read some of the earlier posts and linked documents in this thread, you would already know that first-person reports have noted large accumulations of bat bodies in affected caves. The most recent update from the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which you can read here, lays out very nicely what is known and unknown, as well as the potential ramifications of this issue. I encourage you and everyone following this issue to read this document carefully. Many other important documents on this issue are posted on this page, which I encourage you to bookmark and check periodically.

However, since you don't seem to be willing to do the research yourself, let me lay out , as clearly and straightforwardly as I can, the current major elements of this issue, based on various sources that I consider to be reliable (you are, of course, free to dispute whether I am a good judge of reliability on this issue - I am not a biologist, let alone a bat biologist. I'm just a geologist and long-time caver.)

- Thousands of bats have died recently in caves and mines in three northeastern states - NY, VT, and MA. This has been demonstrated from lots of bodies, plus drops in bat populations as high as 97% in affected caves. A general (although not universal) commonality appears to be a white fungus around the noses of affected bats.
- This is unusual, and previously unreported.
- No one knows yet what is causing the unusual die-offs.
- The occurrence of die-offs appears to be spreading geographically. In 2007, it was detected in a few locations in eastern NY. In 2008, it was detected in more locations in eastern NY, plus locations in two adjacent states (VT and MA).
- No one knows yet what is causing the apparent geographic spread of this problem.
- Human visitation of caves cannot yet be ruled out as a possible vector that could potentially contribute to the spread of this problem.
- The urgency of this problem has been recognized by state and federal agencies, and several scientists are working very hard to find out why the bats are dying, and how the problem is spreading.
- State and federal agencies are communicating to the caving community, and have asked for their cooperation as they research the problem.

I would suggest that we all look at the issue from an "upside/downside" perspective. Below is a paraphrasing of a very simple analysis that one cave manager I know made recently.

Option 1. Make no changes to cave access in/near the affected areas while scientists are researching the die-offs.
Upside: Cavers get to keep going caving at all their usual spots, and don't need to bother cleaning gear between cave trips.
Downside: Possibility that cavers will inadvertently spread whatever is causing the dieoffs beyond its "natural" progression, thus contributing to major bat die-offs and possible extinction of endangered species.

Option 2. Close caves in/near the affected areas while scientists are researching the die-offs, and ask cavers to take some steps to reduce the possibility of spreading whatever is causing them.
Upside: Possibility of saving tens or hundreds of thousands of bats, and possibly saving one or more endangered species from extinction. Also, cavers show state and federal agencies and the public that they actually care about the ecology of caves.
Downside: Some cavers are temporarily inconvenienced by not being able to do recreational caving in the affected areas, and by having to clean their gear between caves, until such time as the potential for caver contribution to the spread is definitively ruled out.

I'll leave it to each reader to decide which option he or she believes has the better upside/downside ratio.

FIRST OF ALL RON, I have read those documents...NO WHERE IN THERE DOES IT LIST THE NUMBER OF DEAD BATS BEING FOUND. THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THAT ITS LISTED IN THE DOCUMENTS, YET IT IS NOT LISTED, IT SAYS A LARGE NUMBER OF BAT BODIES. WHAT IS A LARGE NUMBER, 1,000 DEAD BODIES OUT OF 11,000 MISSING BATS JUST DOESNT CUT IT FOR ME.

EDIT: This has been demonstrated from lots of bodies, plus drops in bat populations as high as 97% in affected caves = SO ARE 97% OF THE BATS BEING FOUND DEAD OR 5-10% OR ANY OTHER NUMBER.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO YOUR RESEARCH!

AND STILL NOTHING CAN POINT TO CAVERS DISTRIBUTING WNS

IM NOT DENYING THAT THIS IS KILLING BATS, BUT I DONT NOT BELIEVE CAVERS ARE SPREADING IT.

[John Lovaas]

What information do we have that this is being spread by cavers? What makes us think all these bats are dying, Where are the bodys? If this was being spread by cavers im certain the problem would be alot more widespread. Even if this is killing the bats, i still dont believe it is being spread by cavers.

Well, when the biologists stated that there was a 90-97% mortality rate; they didn't pull the numbers out of their

The reason for any of these closures is that the primary cause of mortality, and its contagiousness/ease of transmission is UNKNOWN. Therefore, the DNR and FWS would like cavers to assist in eliminating one variable- the POSSIBILITY, however remote, that the agent MIGHT be carried to other hibernacula by human activity.

Do you earn your living from these closed caves? Do you have a science experiment deployed in one of these caves that needs to be maintained before the closure ends? I'm going to go out on the limb and say NO, you do not.

A quick count of the WV list shows 44 caves caves closed for WNS concerns- 19 of which are already closed seasonally or year-round. This, out of West Virginia's 3,000+ caves- this is an inconvenience to you? The only hindrance these closures offer to you is that you may, God Forbid, have to find something else to do on a given weekend weekend this spring.

Let's see- assist in determining what's going on with WNS by avoiding 1.4% of all West Virginia caves for a little while, or about the perception of not having something to do this weekend. Huh. Seems like a no-brainer for someone who supports the goals and aims of the National Speleological Society.