WNS in Georgia

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WNS in Georgia

Postby monkeycrawl » Mar 12, 2013 10:11 am

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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby JD » Mar 12, 2013 12:00 pm

Yawn. Same old same old. Sure am glad that the policy of restricting human entry to caves to prevent the spread of WNS was SOOOOOOO successful. Illinois, South Carolina, Georgia, with massive infilling in previously affected states. Gosh, what will USFWS say now, we have to KEEP the moratorium so that the disease won't spread back to Europe?

Oh, also they said the closures would give them time to come up with a prevention strategy. Seems like it is time for them to put up, or shut up. Wwhere is that brilliant plan, guys, that was worth destroying relations between agency managers and cavers?

Let's just admit their policy was and is an abject failure and move on. Plenty of non-bats research still be done in caves, if only they were open...
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby PYoungbaer » Mar 13, 2013 2:48 pm

JD wrote:Seems like it is time for them to put up, or shut up.


Seriously, as the federal agency charged with protecting the nation's endangered wildlife species, what should they do? What does "put up" mean? I think we can all agree that the caving advisory is outdated, and that blanket cave closures didn't work. What should USFWS do now?
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby graveleye » Mar 14, 2013 8:18 am

PYoungbaer wrote:
JD wrote:What should USFWS do now?


It would be nice, at least, to hear them say that the primary spread of WNS has not been due to caver/human activity. So far the focus regarding spread in the press and media, has been on cavers. Almost every article you read has at least one blurb that unfairly points the finger at cavers. I would like to see the USFWS release something that de-vilifies cavers in hopes that the press will pick up on it.

We've endured years of having the finger pointed at us, and it is still going on today. I don't think that admitting that cavers aren't the culprits would cause them much shame, but then again there are powerful egos out there that have a hard time admitting they were wrong.
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby JD » Mar 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Peter said "I think we can all agree that the caving advisory is outdated, and that blanket cave closures didn't work."

1st. Perhaps USFWS can publically acknowledge what you just stated. Perhaps the field workers "know" it, but the web page, the formal advice, and the attempts to pressure states and other agencies do not reflect this basic fact. So "Put up or Shut up" means announce the great plan they said they were going to come with during the closures (or admit they were whistling in the dark) or perform #2 below. I realize some think being a bureaucrat means never admiting you were wrong but this stubborn refusal to face facts is silly.

2nd. Change the advisory and agency behavior. Dave Pelren is STILL going to Lost Creek and telling people the cave is closed, in direct contravention of the wishes of the landowner who donated it to the state.

3rd. Acknowledge the very negative impacts the closure have had on relations between cavers and land stewards, the curtailment of non-bat science, and the loss of recreational and educational values in caves.

Look, Peter, I will be glad to write the press release: "Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of USFWS and our partners, the cave closure policy has failed to check the progress of the deadly disease known as WNS. Due to the unanticipated negative impact of the closure, we have decided to end the voluntary moratorium and suggest to all agencies they re-open their caves to responsible vistation. The decontamination protocols remain in place for WNS positive sites.

I have a lengthy sad tale about how Cavers worked for 40 years to study, protect, research, and protect a cave called Big Bone Cave. Yet now when a university professor asks to take a class of students (class is called Cave Archaeology) to the cave to learn about saltpeter mining, the state says no! Unbelievable.
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby PYoungbaer » Mar 19, 2013 12:00 pm

Yeah, I hear you on Big Bone. This from Wikipedia:

"The State of Tennessee closed all State-owned caves to exploration and visitation in 2009 due to the spread of White nose syndrome, a disease that affects only bats. Probably the only persons who can obtain permission to enter Big Bone Cave at the current time would be biologists conducting research on bats. Very few bats live in Big Bone Cave." (emphasis added)
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby ON_ROPE » Mar 20, 2013 6:55 pm

Today we surveyed the bats in Ellison's cave. Saw over 1700 pips in the upper cave. About 1/4 of them showed the dreaded white muzzle fungus. There were no dead bats and no obviously sick bats. Bummer. Other caves on Pigeon Mountain have not shown any symptoms. However nearby caves have seen positive bats.
Now we need to educate the bats here not to migrate, do not associate with any bats from south of here and to cover their mouth when they sneeze.
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby wyandottecaver » Mar 20, 2013 7:59 pm

Well if the bats never leave they cant migrate or interact with other bats.....but at this point its all kinda moot. WNS will do what WNS will do regardless. There is exactly 1 thing humans can do about it at this point....Nothing.
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Re: WNS in Georgia

Postby cavergirl » Mar 25, 2013 10:29 am

New WNS map 3/21/13 confirming Walker county GA
http://whitenosesyndrome.org/resources/map
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